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Emotion And Faith. Logic And Doubt.
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It seems to me (both on AB and in real life) that the reasons why religious believers and religious doubters differ in their opinions is because of the way that we process information. Either emotionally or logically.
I was listening to some street preachers a few weeks ago (I was waiting to meet someone and didn't have any ear-plugs with me) and it occurred to me that their entire preaching was based on emotion...Jesus died for us (love) and if we reject him we can expect to spend eternity in hell (fear) and that we need to rely only on Jesus (trust) to find rest (joy) Not once did they offer any 'logical' reason for this...
I encounter the same mindset with my Christian friends whenever the subject crops up, its all based on emotion.
On the other side of the coin is us doubters who continually apply logic. We explore, research and try to make informed choices. Our 'beliefs' are not based on emotion but on facts. We can no more believe in a dying and resurrecting God-man who wishes for us to worship him (and will cast us into an infernal torture chamber if we don't) than we can believe in a flying pink unicorn wearing a tutu. Doubters don't hate God...we just cant possibly believe in him/her/it.
Are those of us that doubt missing out because we RELY on logic?
Are those that believe emotionally missing out because they DONT apply logic?
I was listening to some street preachers a few weeks ago (I was waiting to meet someone and didn't have any ear-plugs with me) and it occurred to me that their entire preaching was based on emotion...Jesus died for us (love) and if we reject him we can expect to spend eternity in hell (fear) and that we need to rely only on Jesus (trust) to find rest (joy) Not once did they offer any 'logical' reason for this...
I encounter the same mindset with my Christian friends whenever the subject crops up, its all based on emotion.
On the other side of the coin is us doubters who continually apply logic. We explore, research and try to make informed choices. Our 'beliefs' are not based on emotion but on facts. We can no more believe in a dying and resurrecting God-man who wishes for us to worship him (and will cast us into an infernal torture chamber if we don't) than we can believe in a flying pink unicorn wearing a tutu. Doubters don't hate God...we just cant possibly believe in him/her/it.
Are those of us that doubt missing out because we RELY on logic?
Are those that believe emotionally missing out because they DONT apply logic?
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//Nailit, I have never met anybody who was PREDOMINANTLY logical or emotional either//
Arnt you contradicting yourself here woof?
//I do know that some people who are on the autistic spectrum have difficulty with social interraction or dealing with their own feelings//
Why do such people have 'difficulty'? Whats difficult about using logic above emotion?
I wish Buenchico were around to explain a bit more.
I was a naïve, emotional teenager when I subscribed to the Christian religion.
I was an informed, logical being when I left. Had my brain changed? I don't know.
Arnt you contradicting yourself here woof?
//I do know that some people who are on the autistic spectrum have difficulty with social interraction or dealing with their own feelings//
Why do such people have 'difficulty'? Whats difficult about using logic above emotion?
I wish Buenchico were around to explain a bit more.
I was a naïve, emotional teenager when I subscribed to the Christian religion.
I was an informed, logical being when I left. Had my brain changed? I don't know.
//Nailit - It was written.
It happened.
Don't complicate it with masses of words//
Oh OK. It must be true then, because you say so?
Thats it then, despite masses of evedince against it all (unfulfilled prophecies etc) its all true because .... of Israel.
Glory, Im a believer now....
Oh, hang on a min. Ive still got this little pesky thing called logic (and intellect). Damn!
It happened.
Don't complicate it with masses of words//
Oh OK. It must be true then, because you say so?
Thats it then, despite masses of evedince against it all (unfulfilled prophecies etc) its all true because .... of Israel.
Glory, Im a believer now....
Oh, hang on a min. Ive still got this little pesky thing called logic (and intellect). Damn!
//Just address the Israel issue//
First of all Theland, please don't dare to tell me what issue to 'address' on my own post. Why not have a go at addressing the 'issue' on this one instead of highjacking every post in R&S with your own pet subjects (while ignoring others)?
Secondly, this post is NOT about Israel (your current fetish) Why not try to address your own ignorance of unfulfilled bible prophecy?
First of all Theland, please don't dare to tell me what issue to 'address' on my own post. Why not have a go at addressing the 'issue' on this one instead of highjacking every post in R&S with your own pet subjects (while ignoring others)?
Secondly, this post is NOT about Israel (your current fetish) Why not try to address your own ignorance of unfulfilled bible prophecy?
I see a different " other side of the coin " here . I'll try to explain .
Think about the Earth and life on Earth , the huge complexity. The Earth itself , the ratio of water to land which enables the earth to hold a moisture laden atmosphere . The rotation of the Earth and the tilt of the axis , which drives the air currents and water currents which enables the weather systems which rinse and purify the earth's atmosphere and provides an environment where life not only exists but thrives and sustains itself and will continue to do so for a long while .
Now take a look at the complexity of those life forms , especially plants and insects which play an immeasurable role in sustaining life (you watch what they're going to do in your garden over the next 7 months ).
How did this all originate ?
I see two sides of the coin , both logical :
1) - it came about by random co-incidence and evolved and grew . In an infinite universe any probability no matter how small can eventually arise
2) This is too complicated to have occurred randomly , there must be an intelligent driving force behind it (call it God if you like )
Both these approaches are logical . Those who agree with 1 aren't going to hell and those who agree with 2 aren't over-emotional .
Think about the Earth and life on Earth , the huge complexity. The Earth itself , the ratio of water to land which enables the earth to hold a moisture laden atmosphere . The rotation of the Earth and the tilt of the axis , which drives the air currents and water currents which enables the weather systems which rinse and purify the earth's atmosphere and provides an environment where life not only exists but thrives and sustains itself and will continue to do so for a long while .
Now take a look at the complexity of those life forms , especially plants and insects which play an immeasurable role in sustaining life (you watch what they're going to do in your garden over the next 7 months ).
How did this all originate ?
I see two sides of the coin , both logical :
1) - it came about by random co-incidence and evolved and grew . In an infinite universe any probability no matter how small can eventually arise
2) This is too complicated to have occurred randomly , there must be an intelligent driving force behind it (call it God if you like )
Both these approaches are logical . Those who agree with 1 aren't going to hell and those who agree with 2 aren't over-emotional .
Ben. "In an infinite universe any probability no matter how small can eventually arise"
The universe may not be infinite, but it is certainly vast by our standards. Options 1 and 2 are not necessarily two sides of a coin in the sense that the odds of one or the other are 50-50. Option 1 seems an amazing thing; inanimate matter came into existence and then somehow began to organise itself into something that eventually became self-reproducing. Option 2 presumes a pre-existing mind that created the inanimate matter capable of self-organising and self-reproducing. The obvious question is 'where did the pre-existing mind come from?' If the Mind can exist without cause, then so can the universe. Why explain the complex universe by postulating a more complex pre-existing mind?
The universe may not be infinite, but it is certainly vast by our standards. Options 1 and 2 are not necessarily two sides of a coin in the sense that the odds of one or the other are 50-50. Option 1 seems an amazing thing; inanimate matter came into existence and then somehow began to organise itself into something that eventually became self-reproducing. Option 2 presumes a pre-existing mind that created the inanimate matter capable of self-organising and self-reproducing. The obvious question is 'where did the pre-existing mind come from?' If the Mind can exist without cause, then so can the universe. Why explain the complex universe by postulating a more complex pre-existing mind?
Nailit, //I was a naïve, emotional teenager when I subscribed to the Christian religion.
I was an informed, logical being when I left. Had my brain changed? I don't know.//
I don’t think your brain changed. As a Christian, never having had an opposing suggestion put to me that I could seriously consider - saying it’s all baloney just doesn’t cut it for Christians - I have been known to cry buckets over the plight of Jesus. However, once an alternative argument together with sound reasoning was revealed, I considered it. That’s all. My brain didn’t change – just my willingness to reason.
I was an informed, logical being when I left. Had my brain changed? I don't know.//
I don’t think your brain changed. As a Christian, never having had an opposing suggestion put to me that I could seriously consider - saying it’s all baloney just doesn’t cut it for Christians - I have been known to cry buckets over the plight of Jesus. However, once an alternative argument together with sound reasoning was revealed, I considered it. That’s all. My brain didn’t change – just my willingness to reason.
benhilton, // This is too complicated to have occurred randomly , there must be an intelligent driving force behind it (call it God if you like )//
Call it whatever you like but my problem arises when you claim to know this God, to know what it wants, to know what it thinks, and to know what it will do if human beings fail to meet its expectations. When you attribute the unknown to the unknown – that’s when rationality deserts the argument.
Call it whatever you like but my problem arises when you claim to know this God, to know what it wants, to know what it thinks, and to know what it will do if human beings fail to meet its expectations. When you attribute the unknown to the unknown – that’s when rationality deserts the argument.
I suppose that's where theology comes in. A non-science like astrology, numerology and others. None of them is based on observable data followed by a scientific approach to try to increase our understanding of this marvellous universe, and some of them deride science, but at the same time they do want to appear scientific for some reason.
nailit; https:/
But you didn't contribute, why was that?
But you didn't contribute, why was that?
Khandro
//But you didn't contribute, why was that?//
Because I didn't want to.
// My brain didn’t change – just my willingness to reason.//
Speaking for myself naomi, I think I just got to the point where there was nothing else left to do except to reason and use my brain rather than try to keep a faith that was becoming more and more based on emotion and less and less based on facts....
//But you didn't contribute, why was that?//
Because I didn't want to.
// My brain didn’t change – just my willingness to reason.//
Speaking for myself naomi, I think I just got to the point where there was nothing else left to do except to reason and use my brain rather than try to keep a faith that was becoming more and more based on emotion and less and less based on facts....
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