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What Do You Believe?
44 Answers
My beliefs are well known and documented on all the big questions on the universe origin, abiogenesis, Darwinism, and the massive subject of GOD, the most loaded word in the English language.
My many critics often show limited understanding of the science and evidence they accuse me of lacking knowledge of.
So, what do you actually believe? Anything solid?
My many critics often show limited understanding of the science and evidence they accuse me of lacking knowledge of.
So, what do you actually believe? Anything solid?
Answers
//v_e, 'Christian Atheist' is an ambiguous term. If you number me among the 'New Atheists' (and I'm not sure you'd be right to do that), what do you believe that you think I don't?// That's a good question, Naomi. Both of us would agree, wouldn't we, that, having rejected the Christian myth, our moral attititudes, nonetheless, owe something to our...
09:38 Tue 11th Jun 2019
Solid, Theland? Sadly no.
The thing which interests me is ethics.
The lowest "moral" common factor of human groups (and all pack animals for that matter) is the necessity to co-operate. This co-operative effort requires organisation and hierarchy whether conscious or instinctive. The (in Dawkins' terms "selfish gene") benefit is the perpetuation of the group.
Possibly undesirable side effects of these co-operative structures are the inequable distribution of the products of the collective enterprise and the creation of rank and privilege. An example of the latter case is the exclusive breeding rights claimed the alpha male and female and enforced by Meerkat societies (anyone seee the "Meerkat Diaries"?). An example of the former might be the conscription of ninety per cent of a group's productive effort to a single vanity project like Khufu's tomb (as we're now forced to call him - Cheops in my day).
But there is, or ought to be, a higher (if not a highest) common factor which human groups might aspire to. What that is is the subject jointly of religious speculation, ethical philosophy and political economy.
This Christian atheist doesn't have an answer, only the observation that the rejection of religious traditions in modern times has produced as many horrors (at least) as the religions which their secular agenda replaced.
The thing which interests me is ethics.
The lowest "moral" common factor of human groups (and all pack animals for that matter) is the necessity to co-operate. This co-operative effort requires organisation and hierarchy whether conscious or instinctive. The (in Dawkins' terms "selfish gene") benefit is the perpetuation of the group.
Possibly undesirable side effects of these co-operative structures are the inequable distribution of the products of the collective enterprise and the creation of rank and privilege. An example of the latter case is the exclusive breeding rights claimed the alpha male and female and enforced by Meerkat societies (anyone seee the "Meerkat Diaries"?). An example of the former might be the conscription of ninety per cent of a group's productive effort to a single vanity project like Khufu's tomb (as we're now forced to call him - Cheops in my day).
But there is, or ought to be, a higher (if not a highest) common factor which human groups might aspire to. What that is is the subject jointly of religious speculation, ethical philosophy and political economy.
This Christian atheist doesn't have an answer, only the observation that the rejection of religious traditions in modern times has produced as many horrors (at least) as the religions which their secular agenda replaced.
I believe in many things. I believe in science. I believe in keeping an open mind where possible. I believe that human beings have a long way to go before the globe is civilised. I believe we lose a lot of common sense behaviour as well as the misguided behaviour as one generation takes over from another. I believe I'm going to get breakfast soon.
//v_e, 'Christian Atheist' is an ambiguous term. If you number me among the 'New Atheists' (and I'm not sure you'd be right to do that), what do you believe that you think I don't?//
That's a good question, Naomi. Both of us would agree, wouldn't we, that, having rejected the Christian myth, our moral attititudes, nonetheless, owe something to our specifically Christian culture?
An obvious example is the counter-intuitive Christian injunctions to "love thine enemies and bless those who persecute you". Nothing any pious Muslim could possibly understand. The Koranic principle of "al-Wala’ wal-Bara’" instructs Muslims to love the things Allah loves, but to hate the things and the people who reject Allah and His Messenger. A position which is not at all counter-intuitive and totally consistent with its tribalistic origins.
In summary the Christian position is hate the sin, but love the sinner, while the Muslim position is hate both.
I think that that principle might be part of why I call myself a "Christian" atheist. At the heart of the Christian message (I'm talking mainly about the message of the gospels, certainly not the conduct of "Christian" Europe) is a moral generosity irrespective of its binary theology (sheep/goats stuff). Most obviously represented in the parables and personal encounters recorded by the Evangelists.
Good Samaritan?
Prodigal Son?
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".
I am moved and impressed by the best parts of the New Testament.
Anybody who's read the the Book of Mormon, Dianetics or the Koran will know that those three works are devoid of moral content and all contrived by or written by fraudsters.
I may not be expressing myself very well here, Naomi. I think I'm saying that if you're brought up to believe the Christian myth you're more likely to end up being a tolerant and decent person than if you have the misfortune to be have been brought up as a Muslim.
That's a good question, Naomi. Both of us would agree, wouldn't we, that, having rejected the Christian myth, our moral attititudes, nonetheless, owe something to our specifically Christian culture?
An obvious example is the counter-intuitive Christian injunctions to "love thine enemies and bless those who persecute you". Nothing any pious Muslim could possibly understand. The Koranic principle of "al-Wala’ wal-Bara’" instructs Muslims to love the things Allah loves, but to hate the things and the people who reject Allah and His Messenger. A position which is not at all counter-intuitive and totally consistent with its tribalistic origins.
In summary the Christian position is hate the sin, but love the sinner, while the Muslim position is hate both.
I think that that principle might be part of why I call myself a "Christian" atheist. At the heart of the Christian message (I'm talking mainly about the message of the gospels, certainly not the conduct of "Christian" Europe) is a moral generosity irrespective of its binary theology (sheep/goats stuff). Most obviously represented in the parables and personal encounters recorded by the Evangelists.
Good Samaritan?
Prodigal Son?
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".
I am moved and impressed by the best parts of the New Testament.
Anybody who's read the the Book of Mormon, Dianetics or the Koran will know that those three works are devoid of moral content and all contrived by or written by fraudsters.
I may not be expressing myself very well here, Naomi. I think I'm saying that if you're brought up to believe the Christian myth you're more likely to end up being a tolerant and decent person than if you have the misfortune to be have been brought up as a Muslim.
My many critics often show limited understanding of the science and evidence
---------------
Odd that because despite constant requests I'm still waiting for that evidence.
Or maybe it's because I'm pondering why 'god' would inflict cancer on a toddler.....?
He does seem to have a lot of 'acts' that require explanation. I'm all ears.
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Odd that because despite constant requests I'm still waiting for that evidence.
Or maybe it's because I'm pondering why 'god' would inflict cancer on a toddler.....?
He does seem to have a lot of 'acts' that require explanation. I'm all ears.
"Do you believe in God?" Asked that often myself and been asked it.
A clinical psychologist recently replied that he lives his live with the assumption that God exists, but descriptively and in this context evidentially he cannot understand the terms, "God," or ,"believe."
I find this a new and liberating way to approach the whole subject.
A clinical psychologist recently replied that he lives his live with the assumption that God exists, but descriptively and in this context evidentially he cannot understand the terms, "God," or ,"believe."
I find this a new and liberating way to approach the whole subject.
"but we have to realise that this fallen world is not what it was supposed to be like."
This is true Theland but why isn't it? one word, religion. Religion may give you peace of mind but throughout history and throughout the world, religion has not given one iota of peace. Religion is the personification of evil and the millions like you who condemn those who think differently are at the forefront. You weren't born disliking people because they worshipped differently to you, so where did you learn this animosity? through religion. Remove the con trick of religion and this world could become like it's supposed to be.
This is true Theland but why isn't it? one word, religion. Religion may give you peace of mind but throughout history and throughout the world, religion has not given one iota of peace. Religion is the personification of evil and the millions like you who condemn those who think differently are at the forefront. You weren't born disliking people because they worshipped differently to you, so where did you learn this animosity? through religion. Remove the con trick of religion and this world could become like it's supposed to be.
Vulcan - " Where did you learn this animosity?"
What animosity are you referring to? Certainly not mine.
I hate the evil that is spawned in religions, jihadi terror, the celebration by Hindus of the rape. And murder of an eight year old Muslim child, but my prayers for them are that they will abandon their evil and embrace Judeo Christian values.
What animosity are you referring to? Certainly not mine.
I hate the evil that is spawned in religions, jihadi terror, the celebration by Hindus of the rape. And murder of an eight year old Muslim child, but my prayers for them are that they will abandon their evil and embrace Judeo Christian values.
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