Origin Of Information.

[Theland]

I believe all information originates in a mind.
If you disagree with this, any examples?

[beso]

Better broaden your intellectual horizons Khandro. The concepts of information in science are far wider than your colloquial definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_information

When Theland was talking about information he clearly meant it in a scientific context.

[beso]

Better widen your intellectual horizons, Khandro. Information in a scientific context is far broader than your colloquial definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_information

When Theland was talking about "information" he clearly meant it in a scientific context.

[THECORBYLOON]

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[THECORBYLOON]

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[beso]

This thread has messed up. I have twice tried to reply to Khandro's post but does not display despite it being acknowledged in Latest Posts and the post count on the tread increasing.

[beso]

Seems to have sorted itself out now.

[ludwig]

I would say that's true. The word information relates specifically to the concepts of knowledge and understanding.

Without minds, there is no information. There are just things happening, without anyone or anything being around to be informed about them.

As someone said, it's basically the same as the tree falling in the forest conundrum. The question really is what is a sound and what is information. Are they things that exist independently of consciousness, like a piece of rock or an oxygen atom? I'd say no.

[Khandro]

^^ Precisely

[THECORBYLOON]

The bug with the counter has not been fixed which is why I gave two answers with "..." to make a new page appear.

[beso]

ludwig, the issue is definitions. The word "information" has a meaning in science that is not the same as the meaning you describe.

For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox

[Khandro]

//he word "information" has a meaning in science that is not the same as the meaning you describe. //
Bullshirt - I thought naomi was argumentative but you can match her.
What you are talking about are facts (but even they are flexible , as the history of science shows).

[THECORBYLOON]

Are facts not also information?

[ludwig]

// The word "information" has a meaning in science that is not the same as the meaning you describe. //

Beso, going by your link you seem to be talking about "Physical Information" which indeed seems to be a seperate scientific concept from plain old "Information", which has it's own Wikipedia entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information

As the OP just says "Information", I've simply addressed that question without trying to second guess what Theland's actually going on about, or how he thinks this will prove god exists or whatever.

I also haven't read any of the preceding thread, so if at any point he's come back and said 'yes, I'm talking about information in it's scientific sense, rather than what 98% of people understand the word to mean', then I missed that so I apologise.

[Khandro]

Physical information is a form of information. In physics, it refers to the information of a physical system. Physical information is an important concept used in a number of fields of study in physics.

If it is a concept it only can exist in the mind, or a product of it (book, computer etc.)
Concepts have no independent concrete existence.

[Theland]

Look at what e are doing right now.
Communicating.
How?
By exchanging information.
Where does that information originate?
In our minds.
Any disagreement here?

[SparklyKid]

Information comes from outside the mind. Our mind aborbs it. Otherwise I would have been born with the complete works of Shakespeare in my head.

[Theland]

Where did Shakespeare get his words from?
The market?

[SparklyKid]

Theland, you are talking absolute garbage. We are born with an empty mind, almost. According to you there is no need to go to school. We already have all the information we need .

[Old_Geezer]

By exchanging information. Where does that information originate?

We obtained it from our experiences of our existence. It's been accumulating all the time. Information comes from analysing data which is already out there and contains the information, if one can extract it.

[ludwig]

// Our mind aborbs it. Otherwise I would have been born with the complete works of Shakespeare in my head. //

Where did Shakespeare absorb it from?