Origin Of Information.

[Theland]

I believe all information originates in a mind.
If you disagree with this, any examples?

[Old_Geezer]

It occurred to me this morning that some of this thread has gone off the point.

The initial suggestion was that ALL information originates in the mind. This was important as we subsequently seem to see the attempted logic to claim that if one finds information that doesn't seem to be created from anyone's mind, another mind i.e. God's, has to have existed in order to create it.

My apologies if I've misunderstood the intent; but I'll continue anyway.

So the main thing that occurred to me is that discussions on whether information is created in the human mind at all, or whether it's just regurgitating information previous absorbed, isn't that relevant.

We can, just for the sake of discussion go along with, "if it's accepted that the human mind can create information..." and see that the above attempt to prove a God is a house of cards build on quicksand.

The issue is not whether the mind can create information it is whether only a mind can create information. And earlier I made the observation that space craft and computers achieve that anyway.

(It's all comparable to someone stating only the human voicebox can create soundwaves, showing that it can, and ignoring the nearby waterfall causing a racket nearby.)

So, even if the mind creates information one can not point to information outside the mind and say it must therefore have come from a God. One only assumed that only a mind creates information in order to advance the discussion, so information apparently from outside a known mind can't prove a God, it only shows it appears to have originated outside of a mind. Something I personally believe is self evident. Anything that happens can contain information on what it is and how it came about.

Poor foundations and the whole edifice collapses.

[Old_Geezer]

Oh I see this place still hasn't solved it's counter and delayed update issues :-(

[naomi24]

.

[naomi24]

.

[Old_Geezer]

Ah, finally !

[Theland]

Computers, even AI, are still only regurgitating within programmed parameters.
If you wish to communicate with somebody, you provide them with information that has originated in your mind.

[1ozzy]

Chinese whispers.

[Theland]

Hi Ozzy - Hope all,is well with you and yours.

[1ozzy]

All good thanks Theland, apart from a case of boredom

How's you and your mob?

[Theland]

My mob not been without serious problems, but they are getting solved one by one. Health is the main one..
Still there is always worse off then me.

[Theland]

Still getting the work in?

[1ozzy]

Bit short on paying work, plenty of favours being done though.
Must be my Christian attitude, or just a soft touch ;-)

https://youtu.be/Ep9Vzb6R_58

[Theland]

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The End of Discovery
by Russell Stannard
3.70 · Rating details · 33 ratings · 1 review
Many scientists make extravagant claims as to the scope and power of scientific thinking, claiming that ultimately it will provide a complete understanding of everything. But Russell Stannard, himself an eminent high-energy physicist, strongly disagrees with this grandiose claim. Indeed, in The End of Discovery, Stannard argues that eventually--perhaps in a few decades, perhaps in a few centuries--fundamental science will reach the limit of what it can explain. On that day, the scientific age, like the stone age and the iron age before it, will come to an end.
To highlight the boundaries of scientific understanding, Stannard takes readers on an engaging tour of some of the deepest questions facing science today--questions to do with consciousness, free will, the nature of space, time, and matter, the existence of extraterrestrial life, and much more. For instance, from his own research field, he points out that to understand the subatomic world, scientists depend of particle accelerators, but to understand the very smallest units of nature, it has been calculated that we would need an accelerator the size of a galaxy. Clearly, unless a new approach comes along, we might never understand fully the most basic building blocks of the universe.
As a scientist, Stannard remains hopeful that several of the questions addressed will one day be answered. But other puzzles will remain for all time--and we may never even realize it when we have hit an insuperable barrier in those directions.
He assures us that there will always be new uses of scientific knowledge. Technology will continue. But fundamental science itself--the making of fresh discoveries as to how the world works--must ultimately grind to a halt.
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Published October 7th 2010 by Oxford University Press, USA (first published September 23rd 2010)
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[Theland]

This comes from the "Skeptical Inquirer," an atheist publication.

[mibn2cweus]

Munich physics professor Philipp von Jolly advised Max Planck against going into physics, saying, "in this field, almost everything is already discovered, and all that remains is to fill a few holes." That was nearly a century and a half ago, before the knowledge of how stars work and give rise to the raw materials that make life possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_von_Jolly

[Old_Geezer]

If computers only regurgitate where's the evidence that humans do more ?

In reality they do much the same except humans self start in the morning (alarm clocks aside).

[rihards2018a]

How can you discriminate between creating and receiving.? they must feel same.

[Theland]

How do you communicate instructions to somebody?
Provide them with information?
This seems to have baffled some on here.

[mibn2cweus]

What baffles me is the notion that information can be created in the mind without having acquired it from somewhere, by some means through some process. A mind deprived of any means of ever having acquired information of the external world in which it exists would be senseless . . . literally.

[Theland]

Oh come on Mibs don't you ever communicate an original thought? Where does that come from?