Our Selfish God.

[Theland]

A quote from Naomi on the, '' Benign,'' thread :-

. This selfish God says worship him or woe betide you, and the cowardly do as they are bid lest they compromise the safety of their souls in defence of truth. If man was made in God’s image it shows. What a selfish, self-obsessed creature he is.

This quote raises a few questions.
Is God selfish? Yes, most certainly, He tells us this in the Bible.

Those who do His bidding are cowardly? How? That surely demands an explanation and some examples.
I believe in God, have I made the impression of being cowardly?
On the contrary, it would be easier for me to embrace the majority consensus on God, science and evolution, but I don't. Is that cowardly?
It is true that people are selfish, that is the cause of moral evil.
So Naomi, what on earth are you talking about?

[Mozz71]

No, it's not cowardly to worship God, that's just Naomi looking for a reaction as usual.

Is he selfish? I don't know, I'm not a believer, but if he does exist, he's not a loving god. He let's too much bad happen when he can intervene whenever he wants to.

[Theland]

'' He let's too much bad happen,'' yes that is a common misconception amongst atheists, who consider that this life is all there is.
They need to remember, that if there is no God, then they have to accept all of the suffering as just a part of nature.
If there is a God, I believe in Him, then this life with its suffering is just a precursor to an eternity with Him, and that puts the suffering of this life in perspective.

[naomi24]

Mozz, you make a habit of mistakenly assuming that others share your devious mindset.

Theland, //the cowardly do as they are bid lest they compromise the safety of their souls in defence of truth.//

[Old_Geezer]

I someone complies out of fear, isn't another entitled to interpret that as being cowardly ? Maybe a bit insulting since where does one draw a line between cowardice and simple common sense in the face of overwhelming power, but the point that it wouldn't be love based is still made.

[Mozz71]

//Mozz, you make a habit of mistakenly assuming that others share your devious mindset.//

Not at all, your devious mindset is far beyond anything I could hope to match. Anyway, back on track...

//They need to remember, that if there is no God, then they have to accept all of the suffering as just a part of nature.//

A logical conclusion when faced with a God that does not make himself known to us. You say that there awaits an eternity with Him, but what's the point of that to a stillborn baby or a three year old wth incurable cancer? A merciful God wouldn't deny one of his creations a chance to exercise the free will he grants them, before whisking back into the afterlife again. I know you will say that God's plan is beyond the imagintion of us mere mortals, but I find that difficult to believe.

I'm afraid things just happen. If God is real, he doesn't have a plan, he's abandoned us, just like a child abandoning a toy they no longer play with.

[douglas9401]

I know I'm wasting my time Theland but stop for a moment and consider "all of the suffering as just a part of nature".

It's just that.

Free yourself.

[naomi24]

Mozz, comprehension isn't your forte.

Theland bangs on about morals and sin and yet accepts and is eager to justify the horrors committed by his God. The only reason he does that is because he is terrified of punishment in the afterlife. God is not a fan of honesty either. He only likes 'yes men'. In short, for Theland, saving his own soul is paramount - albeit at the expense of truth. That is cowardice.

[daisypotter]

Maybe there is a God and maybe he despairs of mankind too and its inherent cruelty, but just because he's God doesn't mean he can do anything about it. If there's good, there must be evil surely and isn't the devil the evil one? Maybe the devil causes all the mayhem and pain? I am not a religious person, just open minded.

[douglas9401]

At this point I'd like to introduce our word for the day:

Omnipotent.

[naomi24]

//Maybe there is a God and maybe he despairs of mankind too and its inherent cruelty//

Got to wonder why he made man capable of that then. He had a blank canvas and the ability to erase and re-design as often as he wanted to .... and just look what he settled for. A flawed creature made in his own image.

[daisypotter]

Just my opinion.

[Theland]

He gave us free will on the blank canvas. That embodies choice, to be selfish and evil.
Am I a coward in defence of the truth?
That doesn't make sense.
It would be easier to join the masses and be atheist, but why, when I am promised such a glorious future?
The alternative is horrible. Why would I opt for it?
Is it really cowardly to opt for the promise?
In your thinking, to be brave, one would have to believe, and then reject it. Very confused thinking.

[Theland]

Daisy, your opinion is valid and most welcome. Thanks.

[naomi24]

//Is it really cowardly to opt for the promise? //

With the terms and conditions it carries - yes.

[Mozz71]

I don't think it's cowardice at all, foundless acceptance maybe, but not cowardice.

In a way, Theland's got a point on that: to have commitment to your beliefs is the opposite of cowardice. Personally, I just cannot believe in a fairytale, but those who can, good luck to them.

[Zacs-Master]

‘commitment to your beliefs is the opposite of cowardice’
As evidenced through the ages by religious martyrs. Unfortunately, The acid test would appear to be death, so not a very practical solution to the debate.

[daisypotter]

Thank you Theland. A nicer response than the other one.

[naomi24]

daisypotter, I assume you're talking about my response to you and if so I'm surprised it upset you. It's just simple logic isn't it?

[tamborine]

When none can help there is always god/christ to give succour. Without that trust I would be gone.

[Peter Pedant]

// For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.//
John 3

yeah I agree what on earth is the divine Naomi talking about ?

yeah readers will be totally unsurprised I was reading this in forrin (yeah - ancient forrin ! )
"oun ho thayos agapiseh ton kosmon hiva edwken ton monogenys huion"
yeah got there
edwken is a perf which in Greek means he gave it and the results are still on going ( saviour and resurrection)

or as it really is: Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν [g]υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν,
almost got it right ....

[ cue prolonged screams of 'forrin ! we dont do forrin! ' and and what about the problem of evil in general and covid in particular? betcha never fort abart dat!]