A Bit Of A Hiatus But Finally Done It

[nailit]

A bit of a hiatus (lockdown, work, personal things etc) but finally read the Bible all the way through, again!
How on earth can anybody read this mess and believe its the word of (any) God is beyond me.
Read about a 3rd of it and left of for a bit. (TBH the unrelenting slaughter was getting to me a bit) Picked up again and read whole books at a time. The contradictions alone had me questioning, never mind the bloodshed etc (That was before I got to the new Testament).
Then the New Testament accounts doent agree with each other.
I tried.
The bible is a crock.
Different books, Different authors, different theologies.

Modern church...
We'll try to reconcile them all and call it the bible...
Good luck with that one.

[Theland]

I do hope Nailit returns with his opinions.

[naomi24]

How easily Christians ignore cruelty.

[Theland]

I do hope Nailit returns with his opinions.

[naomi24]

Me too.

[nailit]

Theland, the ''Taking it out of context'' line that gets quoted is one that I used myself (often) when I was a Christian discussing the Bible with non-believers. And its a cop out. Genocide, slavery, etc is never morally justified whatever the context. As naomi posted
//To condemn a baby to a lingering death in order to wreak revenge on an adult is immoral on every level//

I really would like a discussion with you on Biblical morality without any side-stepping, snide remarks or abuse (on either side).
If you're willing, I'll post a Biblical law, precept, or whatever, that I find immoral and give you the chance to reply (and put in context if needs be). If you don't have an answer then Id respect you more for saying so rather than posting a 2 hour vid. No arguement, just a discussion. And I wont post multiple verses about different topics because that way nothing ever gets answered...(info overload) If you agree then I'll start with this...

Is it *ever* morally justified to execute your new wife because she didn't bleed on her wedding night?


//13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[b] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.//
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
(Deuteronomy 22: 13-21)

[Bazile]

Nailit , I thought you were a devout follower of the word
So , what happened ?

If you're now so anti , why did you bother to read the book from cover to cover - is there some thing pricking you from your past devotion ?

[nailit]

Bazile, interesting questions.
//I thought you were a devout follower of the word
So , what happened ?//
I educated myself. Don't mean to sound flippant but it was as simple as that.

//If you're now so anti , why did you bother to read the book from cover to cover - is there some thing pricking you from your past devotion ?//
Im not anti anything. I'm pro reason. I reread the Bible cover to cover purely to refresh my memory. (And I like reading)
The only thing 'pricking' me from my past devotion is that I wasted my teenage and early 20 years to religion when I should have been sowing my oats, getting layed as much as possible and smoking funny things. Made up for it though later on ;-)

[Theland]

Nailit - Its not fair of you to throw me things that you don't understand and then expect me to use my valuable time to research them for you.
I'll do it now for you, but p!ease in future do your own research.

In ancient Israel, virginity was highly prized to the point of holiness.
For a woman to deceive a man, in order to get a husband with benefits, was a heinous crime, for which she could pay with her life.
She grew up knowing this, as part of the prevailing holy aspects of her culture.
Does that answer you?

[nailit]

//Nailit - Its not fair of you to throw me things that you don't understand and then expect me to use my valuable time to research them for you//
EH?

So, a woman that doesnt bleed on her wedding night (despite the FACT that not all women bleed on their first sexual encounter)
should be stoned to death?
Can you justify that or not?
Please put it it in context.
Is it moral that women who fail to bleed on their wedding night should be executed?

[Theland]

By today's moral standards and cultures the answer is no.
You are making the common mistake of judging history by today's standards.
You have to imagine yourself back in time in that culture, growing up always knowing the cultural norms.

[nailit]

//By today's moral standards and cultures the answer is no//
Is it ever justified to kill your wife?

[nailit]

Would you kill yours because she didnt bleed on your wedding night? would you stone her to death?
Would you stone anyone to death?

[Theland]

I would say no, but then I am judging by today's moral standards.
In India, even in the 19th century, a sect called Sufis would put the wife on her dead husbands funeral pyre so he would still have her in the afterlife.
These are anthropological questions, and nothing to do with the impossible task of trying to equate historical practices by today's standards.

[Theland]

Some communities loved each other, some ate each other.

[Theland]

Some African tribes believed they were superior, so took prisoners from other tribes and sold them to white slavers.
All perfectly normal and moral in their culture.

[nailit]

Theland, I reiterate,
Is it ever wrong to execute your newly wed wife?
Biblically it is ordained.
It's morrally wrong.
It was then and is now.
Whatever context you wish to apply, its ALWAYS wrong.

[nailit]

And your God ORDAINED it to be right....

[Togo]

//A Bit Of A Hiatus//

Glad I looked in to see what the fuss was about. Though someone had suffered a hernia. Phew....What a relief.

[Theland]

As you wish.
You know my views.

Just an observation, you can spend the rest of your life picking holes in the bible, and never get anywhere.
You are entirely missing the essential message of God and His plan for your salvation.
Reject it if you want, your choice.

[nailit]

Theland, I honestly tried to hold out the hand of friendship and tried tried to have a friendly debate/discussion.
Alas.