Make Me An Atheist.

[Theland]

Can you convince me of the truth of Atheism?
Quote references from scientists, philosophers, theologians or anybody you like, but anything except an unsupported personal opinion.
Please?

[ToraToraTora]

pixie: "Everyone is born an atheist, so if you want to be one, you just need to work out what changed your mind and why" - yep there's your BA theland. Pixie, I will use that too in future, if that's ok. So Theland what did cause you to turn away from being an atheist (Pixie 2020)

[Old_Geezer]

Surely at birth you haven't formed an opinion on anything, or anything much.

As for making you an atheist, I'm unsure that I have the materials. Would you settle for a corn dolly ?

[naomi24]

//"Everyone is born an atheist, so if you want to be one, you just need to work out what changed your mind and why"//

There’s a logic fail there because nothing changed Theland’s mind. Whilst it’s true that no one is born believing, we’re all raised within certain cultures - we in the west in the Christian culture - and that is what’s instilled in us. Had Theland been born in say, Saudi Arabia, he’d be Muslim. Children don’t make an informed choice about religion - they’re raised with it. Whatever culture people are born into, it takes reason to reject it. Therefore if Theland wants to embrace atheism he needs to apply reason to his current beliefs.

[ToraToraTora]

OG: "Surely at birth you haven't formed an opinion on anything, or anything much. " - yes the absence of belief = atheism. It is only mumbo jumbo subsequently ingested that must turn an atheist into a theist. QED we are born atheist.

[Old_Geezer]

atheism = belief of absence

Subtle difference.

[naomi24]

//atheism = belief of absence

Subtle difference. //

That's why it isn't right. A baby doesn't 'believe' anything.... absence of belief.... atheism.

[Khandro]

# "Everyone is born an atheist, #

This is simply not true, no particular religion is of course present in the newly- born, but the spiritual component of existence & need for it is built into the collective unconscious - "the archetypal psyche" & has been there, present, through the entire history of humanity.

[naomi24]

Khandro, it is true. You confuse a ‘spiritual component’ with the influence of the supernatural. You need to consider what ‘a spiritual component’ consists of.

[ToraToraTora]

khandro, rubbish, kids are brainwashed by their parents, end of.

[Khandro]

TTT # kids are brainwashed by their parents, end of.#

They could or could nor be, but that has nothing whatever to do with what I have written above.
In most cities & civilizations the sacred structures are the grandest costliest & most enduring. This all stems from a need for the spiritual within us, this is something which isn't 'taught' (or can be untaught) it is universal.

Why not read something on this subject? you could do with worse than Neil MacGregor's excellent, 'Living With the Gods'. There is even a series on youtube.

[vulcan42]

Khandro, have a quick google at Insurance companies buildings. Some are just as impressive as many churches and built for the same reason- Insurance.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //In most cities & civilizations the sacred structures are the grandest costliest & most enduring. This all stems from a need for the spiritual within us…//

It stems from man’s ridiculous propensity to attribute that which fails to understand to the fruits of his vivid imagination.

[naomi24]

'which *he* fails'

[Khandro]

vulcan: #have a quick google at Insurance companies buildings. Some are just as impressive as many churches and built for the same reason- Insurance.#

If there was an AB category along with 'best answer' for 'daft answer' you would win it hands down. Don't you feel even slightly ridiculous when you re-read that?

[naomi24]

Khandro. People do use god as an insurance policy so Vulcan’s observation is rather astute. Far smarter than the notion that grand churches are somehow evidence for the existence of god. They’re not.

[HansUrbancka]

Khandro......As you have brought buildings into the thread, perhaps you will answer a reasonable question.

Why does the God you worship, allow the destruction and or serious damage of sacred buildings which have been erected in order to shower praise on him/her/it.? Two examples of many....York Minster and Notre Dame.

Hans.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - // In most cities & civilizations the sacred structures are the grandest costliest & most enduring. This all stems from a need for the spiritual within us, this is something which isn't 'taught' (or can be untaught) it is universal. //

Have you seen the railway stations in most American cities? They knock a lot of religious buildings sideways for size and grandeur.

And that is nothing to do with 'the spiritual within us' - they are monuments to endeavour and commercial success.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Whilst it’s true that no one is born believing, we’re all raised within certain cultures - we in the west in the Christian culture - and that is what’s instilled in us. //

That does not negate Pixie's point - she is quite right when she says we are all born as atheists, because as new-born babies we have an absence of anything except the reflex action to breath.

Faith, or any sort, can only be taught to a child when the child has reached an age of cognisance, and that is not when the child has emerged from the womb, so Pixie's point remains valid I believe.

[ToraToraTora]

Khandro, yes, they have magnificent buildings but for me that just reinforces the mass self delusion that omnipotent beings exist and must be worshipped though they never actually tell us anything or respond in any way.

[Khandro]

AH: # she is quite right when she says we are all born as atheists, because as new-born babies we have an absence of anything except the reflex action to breath.#
I really don't know where to start with that delusion. I had a quick look around & the subject is discussed somewhat on here:

https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/6837/are-we-necessarily-born-with-innate-knowledge