Self Righteous Religionists, Just Gotta Love Em Eh?

[nailit]

My sons G/F is pregnant.
Her Uncle is a pastor.
He's just stated that the baby (my grandson) is a product of sin.
You just got to love these people of faith havnt you?

Dick!!

[andy-hughes]

Atheist - // Andy, I don't think that the world being round was ever a 'belief'; the idea came from speculation which led to a theory that a round earth would fit in with observations about ships dipping below the horizon, and the shape of lunar eclipses. There were never any religious dogmas about a round earth, just theories which eventualaly stood the test of time. //

You are of course perfectly correct - a poor example on my part.

Let's pluck another one - there are plenty out there (!)

Once it was thought that an eclipse indicated a good / bad harvest, now we know that actually it does neither.

Perhaps that better illustrates the fact that you can make a 'religion' out of anything you cannot explain at the time you are living - but that does not mean that people in the future will not arrive at a cast-iron explanation for what you believed was 'divine intervention'.

[Atheist]

Paigntonian; when you refer to 'reason' do you mean 'logic'? Do you deny that logical argument has any validity? If so, then do you believe that faith without logic is more reliable than so'called logic?

[Atheist]

Andy, Imore or less agree with you, except I'm not sure that cast-iron explanation is achievable - there's always room for doubt.

[andy-hughes]

Atheist - // Andy, Imore or less agree with you, except I'm not sure that cast-iron explanation is achievable - there's always room for doubt. //

Indeed - but i am sure you will concur that some time in the future there will be a theory based on provable science that caused the universe, and life itself, to com into being.

As long has man has had sentient thought, those notions are inexplicable, so the notion of a higher power steps in to carry the burden of wondering - but there will be a time when a viable alternative is discovered, I wonder what future for 'God' then?

[Atheist]

Andy, I just hope that intelligent beings will always bear in mind that there might be a bit more just beyond current understanding, otherwise we would be stuck with dogma.

[mibn2cweus]

Paigntonian

//Remember that reason is itself an act of faith. You have to have faith that your reasoning bears any relation to reality.19:43 Fri 19th Feb 2021//

Beliefs that requires faith no longer resides within the purview of reason. Reason is based on and follows entirely from the ability to demonstrate the non-contradictory relationship between knowledge and reality. Faith is an attempt to circumvent that essential process in the hope of affording to belief the same status as knowledge without the requirement of reason. When one has resorted to faith, reason has ceased to be a requirement or a possibility.

[Theland]

That's quite a statement of faith from Andy!

[Theland]

MIBs - of course I'm confused by your posts on reason.
The trouble is that you leave everything hanging, not anchored to anything.
Do you reject objective moral absolutes?
If so, then like Dawkins, you can see the universe as totally indifferent to our notions of good and evil.
Most of us, apart from the psychopath, can immediately recognise evil.
Auswitch, child murders, the sad list goes on and on.
But your airy fairy notions of right and wrong, encapsulated within your reason are nowhere defined, and like a rudderless ship, driven by the winds of change, or in this case, the latest thinking from experimental philosophers.
High falutin' sounding words are no substitute for the foundation stone of our being, with its duties and responsibilities towards each other, non negotiable, permanent and objective.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // High falutin' sounding words are no substitute for the foundation stone of our being, with its duties and responsibilities towards each other, non negotiable, permanent and objective. //

Fancy typing that out, blowing it up to large size, printing it off, and then sticking it above your monitor so you can see it every time you post in the future?

That will save a lot of time all round.

[drmorgans]

Duties, responsibilities, laws, rules, all social constructs invented by Man, possibly "informed" by the current religious fashion. Definitely not absolute.

[naomi24]

//MIBs - of course I'm confused by your posts on reason.
The trouble is that you leave everything hanging, not anchored to anything.//

I don’t doubt that you’re confused at Mibs’ posts on reason. He’s reasonable and you aren’t. When there is nothing definitive to hang an answer on - and in this case there isn’t - it’s stupid to attempt to anchor to anything. Just be honest and say you don’t know, Theland.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // Just be honest and say you don’t know, Theland. //

Every time you post that, I put a pound in a jar next to my computer.

I'm saving up for a Ferarri - I fully expect to have it on order by the end of May!!!!!!

[naomi24]

Vrrrooom .... :o)

[andy-hughes]

Indeed!!!

[Theland]

How funny.
Murdering babies for fun has no objective moral standard to frown upon it.
Your rules, or lack of.

[naomi24]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, Theland …. unless you mean the baby that God condemned to a lingering death in order to punish the father? Can you please clarify?

[mibn2cweus]

The universe has no stake in our rationality. We alone live or die by virtue or our reason. The confusion arises from the inability or refusal to acknowledge that life and death are absolutes which leave us with no alternative but to think or cease to exist.

[Theland]

So MIBs, you don't recognise the most appalling evils when confronted by them?
''Its just the universe doing its thing!''
Well sorry! I DO recognise evil.

[Theland]

Naomi - your atheistic passions have now led you to plain and simple stupidity.

[mibn2cweus]

If I didn't acknowledge and realise the importance of confronting evil, I wouldn't be here. To do that effectively requires an understanding of what evil is and its source. It is our survival and wellbeing in the face of reality that informs our morality through the consequences of our beliefs, choices and actions. We are here and thrive not to be moral but to the extent that we are moral beings.