The Historical Jesus.

[Theland]

Compared to other people in history, there is a wealth of documents to support the existence of Jesus, and His ministry on Earth, yet critics pour scorn on His very existence, but have no trouble believing in other figures for which there is only fractional evidence.
Is this a correct assertion that I have made, or am I somehow mistaken?
The scorn, that is, not the existence of Jesus.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"God is never going to issue conclusive proof, because it would defeat the purpose."

This is rubbish and not borne out by the Bible itself. He used to appear to people all the time, not least of which is Jesus. If he exists (he hasn't come and proved anything yet, by the way) he clearly has no problem in doing it.

"If ever the resurrection were to be conclusively proven, he would have lost the intent, which was to earn the attention (love?) of mankind of its own volition"

All the disciples are knackered then because they were witnesses with incontrovertible evidence.

"A forced respect via scientific treatise is useless."

Why is it any different from what Christians claim for themselves through non-scientific means? If Christians know that it is true through personal experience of God, then they have had conclusive proof, which you say above isn't possible.

This isn't just semantics, it's an obvious hole in the logic.

[jackthehat]

So, we have the formation of the State of Israel and the squabbles over Jerusalem.................is that all on the prophecy/miracle front ?

[whiffey]

Good, Spock is really on the blow.

Why 'seemingly intelligent' ? Wanna swap degrees ?

I'll bet you haven't examined the case for the prosecution in years, you're just reflexing in scorn.

[Theland]

Doc Spock - I don't believe in fairies. Demons, yes, but fairies, no.
Niether do I believe in effect without a cause.
Our universe is an effect. I believe God was the cause. Otherwise, I would have to believe that "Something" came out of "Nothing" for no reason whatsoever. Now that is a leap of blind faith ... in my opinion.

[Doc Spock]

No.

[WaldoMcFroog]

So where did god come from? Out of nothing. Oh - knackered argument.

[whiffey]

The semantics work for me, because they are rather childish, and I think it is in this vein that these matters should be approached.

I love threads like this, they are as inevitable in outcome as sunrise and sunset, and equally vital.

[Doc Spock]

I have no interest in acquiring your degree of stupidity Whiffey.

[Theland]

More prophecy / miracles?
Well yes. Individuals have had their lives transformed by their knowing Jesus, discovering Him by searching for Him, not by an idle curiosity led browsing of course. People have been healed of illnesses, and have known answered prayer.
The claims are many and universal, and have bolstered the faith of many.

[whiffey]

My stupidity wouldn't fit into your baboon head Spock.

[Theland]

God is complete and perfect, and has within Him his own cause and effect, that is why He is God alone, and we are not.

[Doc Spock]

Is this jesus bloke ex-directory. I can't seem to find him, been looking in yellow pages and everything.

If you know him that well Theland give me his e-mail address.
My Aunties arthritis is playing up again, could you send him round.

[jake-the-peg]

OK so I wouldn't actually call this a wealth of documents.

Because they are not what you might call independent.

However taken in context with Jospehus' reference I'd say that the evidence for his existance was strong.

But that's a long way from believing that what the Bible says is accurate or even that the people who's names are against the gospels wrote them!

[Doc Spock]

I doubt your stupidity would fill the entire universe Whiffey.

Baboons again I see.

[jake-the-peg]

Just read an earlier reply you made about not believing that something came out of nothing for no reason.

It confused me.

Where do you think God came from?

[jackthehat]

Excellent side-step, Theland.
You habitually use the bible as evidence of 'prophecy fulfilled/miracles' and the ONLY two you ever mention are formation of the State of Israel and the squabbling over Jerusalem.

I don't doubt your belief that knowledge and acceptance of God has transformed people but that is NOT 'biblical prophecy fulfilled' in the same way as you have been stating over the course of many months, is it ?

[whiffey]

Spock, do yourself a favour.

Take 5 minutes, close your eyes in a quiet place, and imagine, really imagine, not existing. Not going to sleep with the safe presumption of dreaming a bit and waking up in the morning, but ceasing utterly to be. If you are content with that then well and good. But I do hope you are not.

Are you happy with annihilation ?

[wizard69]

what is wrong with annhiliation?
I didnt exist for billions of years before I was born so why should it bother me when I'm dead?

[jake-the-peg]

What's happiness got to do with reality Whiffey?

I'd love to believe in eternal life, and Santa and the Easter Bunney

[beerbelly]

When I was young , I used to believe in Santa Claus .
And historically there was such a person ( St. Nicholas )

Just as there probably was a person called Jesus .
But that's as far as it goes , I don't believe any of the mumbo jumbo .