muslims

[The Sherman]

Right here goes...... I honestly don't want to start a big debate but for all the muslims out here can someone eplain what your religion is all about?
From what i have seen so far it is very oppressive very negative and also very dogmatic in the way you live your life.

anyone wanna try and change my media influenced views on muslim culture?

and please no-one start raving on about how bad all muslims are- they cant all be bad so i just want someone to explain to me on an unhostile thread what they're all about.

[Catron]

You want to know about Islam? Why not simply Google? Do you really expect this thread not to become hostile? The threads below have, although they also were ostensibly just looking for peoples views.

If a Muslim were to simply give you the information you seek, the thread will degenerate into anti-islamic rhetoric that serves no purpose.

[Catron]

Sorry, I should have said the threads on Islam on the main Society & Culture section, rather than below in this section.

[Octavius]

I quite agree with Catron. Islam is all about The 'Five Pillars' of Islam which are the foundation of Muslim life:

Shahadah: Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;

Salat: Establishment of the daily prayers;

Zakat: Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;

Sawm Ramadan: Self-purification through fasting; and

Hajj: The pilgrimage to Mekkah for those who are able


Everything else is media-influenced.

[Chattirbank]

my grandmother was a muslim lady. she was nothing like the muslims of today. today muslims are given so much freedom, they now think they have the right to control everyone by trying to force their beliefs and laws upon them. but it's all politics. if they are not given their own ways, politicians are afraid they will retaliate with nuclear weapons and start terrorising everywhere in a war-like fashion.

[Octavius]

Pardon?

[Octavius]

chattir, you have just managed to encompass the nature of humankind throughout the course of its history.

You haven't even tried to define what Islam is about.

[jake-the-peg]

Islam means submission ( to the will of God )

There are a few branches much as there are branches of Christianity.

Most notibly:

Sunni, Shi'ite and Suffi they are in increasing order of mysticism (Sunni being very literal to the Koran) Sunnis are the most populous although Iran is mostly Shi'ite.

They respect the Jewish and Christian religions as being mostly correct although they don't see Jesus as divine and are fiecely monotheistic. anything that smacks of multiple Gods is absolutely out ( Christian ideas of the Trinity fall under this )

Islam initially spread from Arabia by violent conquest but in some periods was very enlightened and way more tolerant of other faiths than Christianity at the time.

There are pasages in the Koran that seem quite blood thirsty but the same is true of the bible.

Muslim scholars usually make the distinction between passages that are true for all time and those that were speaking to 7th century arabia.

In the same way the ArchBishop of canterbury does not think the passages in Deuteronomy inciting the Jews to murder and rape in conquest mean that we should do the same today.

You need to make the distiction between muslims and "Islamists" although this term really means those who see Islam as a way of life not just a religion, it's increasingly used to label a minority who want to bring about radical change often by violence.

These are a very small minority certainly in this country, I've known a number of muslims personally and never met one nor anyone who knew one.

To catergorise muslims as being violent and oppresive is like categorising all christians as being like Ian Paisley

[keyplus90]

I believe what Mani Hussain said is right, Unfortunately people have misconceptions about Islam. And it is all about media, agree or not, I am not forcing anyone. My wife is English I am from Pakistan. I said this before as well, that when first time she was going to pakistan with me so many people scared her so much that she was as I was taking her to a slaughter house. Now she has been there 5 time so far and is more eager to go as often as possible. I do not want to say more than this as I know few people are only here to pick bones. I think we should use this forum for positive purposes. Talk about the social problems, family problems, and the ways how we can fight them instead of blaming eachother. Honestly even I see news here sometime I feel that what is happening in Pakistan. But when you go there, you find nothing. I know there are bomb blasts and so much more, but where in the world that is not happening.

[Catron]

And so it begins.

[brionon]

Jake says-''There are pasages in the Koran that seem quite blood thirsty but the same is true of the bible. ''

So What ? All that says is they're both blood-thirsty !

[keyplus90]

I did say, didn't I that few people are here just to pick the bones.

[naomi24]

Catron, do you ever join a thread to answer the question, or do you just criticise others? The last time I came across you, you were criticising someone else, rather than offering your view on the subject under discussion. You aren't AB police, you know, and people are entitled to their opinions - whether you like them or not.

And incidentally, there is a thread 'below' that gives a very informative insight into Islam.

Mani, I have tried to have a sensible discussion on AB about Islam. As someone who is moderate, and hopefully rational, and who has championed 'misunderstood' Muslims many times on AB, I have to say that following the discussion I had with Keyplus on Waldo's thread, and after reading Keyplus' posts on other threads, my views have changed - and sadly, not for the better. The last few days on AB have been a reality check, and an education for me, and I have come to the conclusion that the west does not misunderstand the agenda of Islam. What we see is what we get. From Keyplus' posts on R&S and S&C, that has become abundantly clear.

[keyplus90]

Naomi- You know your problem is that you are trying to represent whole of the west. And you are100% right that west does not misunderstand Islam's agenda. Because West does not want to understand Islam's agenda. Because people like you are so much running after scientific reasoning that you do not know what you are doing. By the time science will have complete and final answers to few questions, world would be near to its expiry date. Can science tell you;

1- Why people shed tears when a loved ones passes away.
2 - Can science tell you why parents get worried when their child does not turn back from school on time.
3 - Can science tell you why people's greed does not fulfil for wealth, and popularity.
4 - Can science tell you before the child is born if he or she would be a hiro or vilain for the society.

I do not think so. And please also let me know if I have made any spellings mistakes. Because you do need atleast one reason to disagree.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, thank you for telling me, yet again, what my problem is.

I disagree with you for many reasons, but none concern your spelling. However, since you asked, yes, you have made several errors both in your grammar and in your spelling. Perhaps you should try typing your posts into Word and running a spell-check before cutting and pasting them into AB.

The Sherman, It seems to me that the Muslim mindset differs from country to country, and therefore, in my opinion, it's not really possible for anyone to offer a conclusive answer to your question. We have in Keyplus, an example of the thought processes of someone from Pakistan, but I have met many Muslims in North Africa and in the Middle East who would disagree with his views, as does my Malaysian friend who now lives in this country. Keyplus is now likely to come back and tell me my friend isn't a true Muslim, as he has previously, but according to her she is, so one person's 'Islam' clearly isn't another's. It probably depends upon individual interpretations of the Koran - and upon the way Islam is taught in different societies. Like Christianity, Islam appears to have many facets, and those who believe what they believe think they're right and that everyone else is wrong, so it's difficult to pin Christianity or Islam down to one basic tenet and there doesn't appear to be a simple, straightforward answer.

[Catron]

Naomi24 - I have not the foggiest idea what you are talking about. All I have said is that if the author of this thread wanted to find about Islam they would have been better off googling as every single thread about Islam here recently HAS turned hostile. Indeed some of those threads were deliberately started to incite this hostility.

I do not in the main join threads in this section as there is so much pointless hot air thrown around with nearly everybody, including yourself, continually attacking the viewpoints of others. I have watched this section for many many months and not one person has EVER given one inch of ground to another - you all have your opinions and stick to them rigidly. You appear to love arguing for the sake of it and thanks all the same, I'll stay out of that!

[keyplus90]

Islam is simple and does not have many sects like Christianity. A very near perfect example of Islam is on this thread given by OCTAVIUS. Apart from those five pillars, Real Muslim is supposed to do what Quran & Sahih Hadith tells you. For example Islam says Alcohol is not allowed (unless for medicinal purpose). Then if your so Called GOOD MUSLIM friend says "Oh I think its OK if you do not get really drunk". then of course you would call her a good Muslim but I would say that she is trying to over-write on the main beliefs of Islam. Unlike Christianity Islam does not allow that. Any George, Dick and Harry can not change those rulings of Islam where you do not have to be rocket scientist to understand. Like to understand the problems of alcohol you only have to look around you. Where the things are not clear because if Muhammed (pbuh) had told people 1400 years ago that people would be flying in planes, then you would say that he did not tell if it would be an air bus or a Jumbo. But he did say that times would come when world will shrink. Now if you think it has already happened. I believe it was a hint about the reduction in distance or time to travel. Like 22 hours to Australia. Only few years ago it was about 3 months and who knows about future. These are the things few people interpret differently and Foundation of Islam clearly does not depend on these interpretations. So Islam is same every where.
We read same Quran all over the world
We face to same direction for prayer from all over the world.
We believe same way about Muhammed (pbuh) all over the world.

[naomi24]

Catron Does the name Theland ring any bells with you? If not, then you have a very poor memory.

We who frequent R&S do enjoy discussing our varying views on religion - that's why we're here - but since you say you have no wish to enter into our debate, and prefer to stay out of it, then, please, by all means be our guest.

Keyplus Your assumption is not only arrogant, it's totally incorrect. My friend does not drink alcohol and I've never said she does. However, she doesn't think as you, so clearly Islam is not the same everywhere, even though you like to think it is. All Muslims may read the Koran, but like Christians, who all read the bible, it seems that people of different cultures interpret it differently. And incidentally, you don't know my friend personally, you know absolutely nothing about her, and therefore your rudeness towards her is completely unacceptable.