ChatterBank14 mins ago
Would Britain Be Less Safe, If We Left The Eu?
20 Answers
It is being banded about by the Remain camp, that the EU has provided peace in
Europe for a record number of years.
So I would like to ask them this, why if we came out of the EU, would it make us less safe?
For starters we would still be a member of NATO, also not being a member of the EU, we wouldn't be forced to intervene in any petty squabbles between member states of the EU, and finely surely no one is suggesting that because we were not in the EU, all the EU members would declare war on us?
Europe for a record number of years.
So I would like to ask them this, why if we came out of the EU, would it make us less safe?
For starters we would still be a member of NATO, also not being a member of the EU, we wouldn't be forced to intervene in any petty squabbles between member states of the EU, and finely surely no one is suggesting that because we were not in the EU, all the EU members would declare war on us?
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It's far too complex to boil down to "more safe in, less safe out", really. So in that the Remain camp is being more than a little dishonest, although to be fair various of the media also exaggerated the point they were making.
The point is that the EU has played its part in maintaining peace amongst its member nations, that the UK leaving the EU risks destabilising the EU as a whole, and that the more divisions exist the more there is to fall out about. I hope very much that no-one is seriously suggesting that a UK v. EU war is going to happen (the probability of this is basically exactly zero), but if Europe becomes more divided then certainly that provides less favourable conditions for keeping the peace, almost by definition.
Is the greater risk that follows really all that significant? Hard to say. Very possibly not, but the last major war on European soil was still more recent than the last referendum we had on membership, so we should at least not be complacent either way.
The point is that the EU has played its part in maintaining peace amongst its member nations, that the UK leaving the EU risks destabilising the EU as a whole, and that the more divisions exist the more there is to fall out about. I hope very much that no-one is seriously suggesting that a UK v. EU war is going to happen (the probability of this is basically exactly zero), but if Europe becomes more divided then certainly that provides less favourable conditions for keeping the peace, almost by definition.
Is the greater risk that follows really all that significant? Hard to say. Very possibly not, but the last major war on European soil was still more recent than the last referendum we had on membership, so we should at least not be complacent either way.
The EU was the brainchild of the Americans. The two European wars had seriously messed up the world and prosperity and capitalism had suffered for half a century. So the US wanted a lasting peace through shared prosprity, but they also wanted Europe to be able to stop Russian communism.
And it has worked. Urope may not have an army, but its economic clout is considerable. The break up of the Soviet empire was largely due to most of the Soviet member countries wanting to be part of the EUs prosperity.
Russia fears the EU, because it is dependent on it. They do not fear the UK.on our own.
And it has worked. Urope may not have an army, but its economic clout is considerable. The break up of the Soviet empire was largely due to most of the Soviet member countries wanting to be part of the EUs prosperity.
Russia fears the EU, because it is dependent on it. They do not fear the UK.on our own.
IMO the security from being in the EU, or in a common single market for that matter, is aggregated to high heaven.
There is nothing to stop individual agreements to share data/knowledge. Nor any bar to allowing hot pursuit if that is felt a good thing (although taking the caught back out of the country would probably need paperwork and signatures).
Having interdependent economies is a known incentive to avoid tension, and in or out of the EU that still applies, ensuring everyone is prepared to give a certain amount of help for struggling markets/countries (although there are international organisations that can do that anyway).
Plus of course, as mentioned in the OP, we have military agreements which makes full war less likely anyway.
There is nothing to stop individual agreements to share data/knowledge. Nor any bar to allowing hot pursuit if that is felt a good thing (although taking the caught back out of the country would probably need paperwork and signatures).
Having interdependent economies is a known incentive to avoid tension, and in or out of the EU that still applies, ensuring everyone is prepared to give a certain amount of help for struggling markets/countries (although there are international organisations that can do that anyway).
Plus of course, as mentioned in the OP, we have military agreements which makes full war less likely anyway.
This is worth bookmarking for reading later...
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I'm not quite sure of the relevance of winning WWI and WWII... in both cases "we" had a great deal of help, no? From all the polish pilots who flew with us in the Battle of Britain, to the Free French forces, etc etc. We didn't manage it on our own.
But anyway. The extra risk of war on leaving the EU is very difficult to quantify, and in practice may turn out to be mere pessimism. If Brexit led to the total collapse of the EU, then it would probably be rather more justified to fear an increased risk of war.
But anyway. The extra risk of war on leaving the EU is very difficult to quantify, and in practice may turn out to be mere pessimism. If Brexit led to the total collapse of the EU, then it would probably be rather more justified to fear an increased risk of war.
Gromit
/// Russia fears the EU, because it is dependent on it. They do not fear the UK.on our own. ///
You are not suggesting that once the UK leaves the EU, they will send their bombers over and attack this great nation of ours?
If they did, do you really think that the EU countries would just stand back and let them, simply because we are no longer a member of their club?
/// Russia fears the EU, because it is dependent on it. They do not fear the UK.on our own. ///
You are not suggesting that once the UK leaves the EU, they will send their bombers over and attack this great nation of ours?
If they did, do you really think that the EU countries would just stand back and let them, simply because we are no longer a member of their club?
Jim has it really.
There are two sorts of 'safe' essentially
One is the security NATO provides and one is a security based on the fact that countries united by common interests and close trading and political ties are less likely to go to war with each other. And it's easy to forget that Europe was at war for most of history or so it would seem. Equally a United EU presents a larger economic block which carries more clout against large blocs like Russia, China etc
It may be that the he threat is exaggerated, but it's important people know the dangers. The world is a dangerous place with lots of extremely unpleasant regimes In it, and while the EU is not perfect it offers us the chance to meet those threats with one political and economic voice. It's not a good time for the 'good people' in the world to be moving apart
There are two sorts of 'safe' essentially
One is the security NATO provides and one is a security based on the fact that countries united by common interests and close trading and political ties are less likely to go to war with each other. And it's easy to forget that Europe was at war for most of history or so it would seem. Equally a United EU presents a larger economic block which carries more clout against large blocs like Russia, China etc
It may be that the he threat is exaggerated, but it's important people know the dangers. The world is a dangerous place with lots of extremely unpleasant regimes In it, and while the EU is not perfect it offers us the chance to meet those threats with one political and economic voice. It's not a good time for the 'good people' in the world to be moving apart
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