Veganuary

[tiggerblue10]

Is anyone having a go at going meat and dairy free just for January? If so, how is it going?

Also, would anyone try this if it was available in the UK?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

[AuntPollyGrey]

Allen: Animals are inferior to Humans it's a fact - like men are different creatures to women. Humans are superior because we have a Conscience that can guide us as to what we do and what we consume -unlike animals that are only driven by desire to eat/breed/survive.
We are all animals - some animals have developed to be herbivores, some carnivores and some omnivores. You have chosen to avoid some animal products because you think animals are the same as us -that is in itself hypocritical as I believe you choose to eat dairy -is a dairy cow not on the same level as a beef cow then? Is it ok to take a newborn animal off its mother, who is genetically bred to produce 10 times the milk they would normally produce -so you can have milk in your tea? Everyone, meat eaters, vegetarians and vegans have to decide what is or is not acceptable to them PERSONALLY and avoid taking the moral high ground.

[Atheist]

APG; are we not allowed to make a moral case for vegetarianism without being accused of hypocrisy? I don't see that a bit of hyopocrisy means that we should simply give up all our personal values - similar to socialists who enjoy champagne being accused of hypocrisy.

[Atheist]

And there is no moral high ground to people who have different morals, just a different island in the ocean of morality.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Atheist personally I find it hypocritical that many Vegetarians preach their cause yet partake of Dairy products. If a vegetarian accepts the cruelty in the Dairy Industry but not in the meat industry, then that is their choice, but they have no right to criticise someone who accepts the 'cruelty' in the meat industry. People think its ok to eat fish -which are basically suffocated to death -or maybe beef should not be eaten but chicken is ok -even though chickens are killed in anything but a 'humane' way.

The Ignorance of basic animal husbandry and farming practices -even on AB- where I would have thought the level of education to be a tad more elevated than many social platforms, is sometimes eye-wateringly inaccurate. Statements such as 'Cows give milk freely', baby lambs taken from their mothers for meat, we eat cows don't we? eating an egg is killing a baby chicken ........

I would only accuse a vegetarian of hypocrisy if they were preaching to me how cruel my bacon sandwich was, while chewing what they deemed as innocently on their cheese roll.

[sevenOP]

"even on AB- where I would have thought the level of education to be a tad more elevated than many social platforms,"

Some subjects are deliberately NOT 'prominent' in the media, some (like sex) are deliberately prominent in the media.
Take, eating dead human flesh....that one will will get the taboo treatment, tootie de suite.
Politicians and the Establishment have long known when to open and close this 'Overton window'.

Eating beef and dairy can cause more unnecessary animal cruelty than just eating dairy, just as kicking two dogs is more harmful than kicking one dog. (et cetera...)

[Atheist]

APG; do you get much stick from vegetarians trying to shame or convert you?
Also, "I would only accuse a vegetarian of hypocrisy if they were preaching to me how cruel my bacon sandwich was, while chewing what they deemed as innocently on their cheese roll."
I know you might think this is a quibble, but eating cheese innocently surely means that they know not what they do, doesn't it? I think most consumption of meat etc, and dairy, is by people who don't really know or want to know; they love their grub and don't see why they should worry about anything else.
Incidentally, I understand there are dairy farmers who try to treat their animals better; leaving the calves with their mothers etc. Is there anything in that idea?

[AuntPollyGrey]

Kicking one dog is just as cruel as kicking 5 dogs, your argument does not make sense.

[pixie374]

I agree with apg. As far as I can see, just about all of us are "hypocritical" when it comes to food. We all have our limits. We can also choose how to treat pets, but not farm animals...
The only thing that grates a bit, is when people pretend they aren't.

[Atheist]

APG, I think the point sevenop made is analagous to saying that the mass murder of jews was more wicked and caused more sufering than the murder of a single person.

[woofgang]

pixie, there are ways in which we can influence how farm animals are treated by our choices. We can choose meat and eggs where welfare standards are high and so on. Yes its more expensive.
Full disclosure, I am a milk using carnivore.

[pixie374]

Yes, me too, woof... and I do look at those things. Tbh, I would rather pay more for food, for animals to be treated well. It should be a law more than a choice though.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Atheist. I have only ever had any 'stick' on line for being a sheep farmer ie 'How can you sleep at night taking baby lambs off their mother to slaughter them'. When I explain the lambs are taken away at around 7-8 months and are usually bigger than their mothers by this time , they then go on to describe the 'horrendous' slaughterhouses etc. I am slowly changing my herd to include rare breeds which will be kept for their wool -this is purely a commercial decision as the upturn in the niche crafting market, where more and more people are wanting fleeces to spin at home, means their wool is worth more than the meat.
You are correct -many people have no idea how milk and cheese is produced. I do know of a few 'niches' farms where cows are allowed to be with their calves for a few hours a day but this is not commercially viable, dairy farmers work to very tight margins, sometimes making less than 1p per pint profits. Also, naturally calves suck regulally through the day, so naturally the cow does not keep huge reserves in her udder. She would not produce enough milk for commercial use if she was feeding her calf and then getting milked. Some producers of goats milk/cheese manage this on a small scale I believe but they can get a lot more money for their products.

[pixie374]

In numbers, atheist... but not everything is a numbers game. If something affects you personally, then it affects you. Whether someone would prefer to hear about 1000 deaths in another country, or just one- in their family... I don't think it's that simple.

[sevenOP]

"Kicking one dog is just as cruel as kicking 5 dogs, your argument does not make sense."

I deliberately used the word 'harm' ( cf humaneness)

[Atheist]

Thank you, APG.
The last time I ate meat was when I was invited to dine with the petanque boss and his wife in 'my' French village; they knew I was vegetarian so I was given a lovely omelette, with lardons in it. It was delicious although somewhat heavy and greasy, leaving me with a lead stomach for some hours afterwards. Prior to that, about 5 years ago I had a taste of roast sanglier (wild boar) at a party; it was delicious. The sangliers live in the woods and farmlands and are hunted (rifles) in the hunting season.
I'm not a fanatic, just feel happier avoiding animal flesh if possible. I still reckon it's better to be mainly vegetarian than to support what I find to be a distasteful and unnecessary industry.

[allenlondon]

Aunt writes “Animals are inferior to Humans it's a fact - like men are different creatures to women. Humans are superior because we have a Conscience that can guide us as to what we do and what we consume -unlike animals that are only driven by desire to eat/breed/survive.”

Well, it’s a point of view. But I’m not happy with your single argument ‘proving’ human superiority, i.e. having a conscience.

Personally, I don’t feel superior to animals, just different.

Similarly, I don’t think women are different ‘creatures’ to men. But given your unshakeable opinion of MY opinion on the subject of my sisters, I shan’t waste my efforts on that subject.

I love my fellow creatures. In the main...