Mummy Or Daddy Cast your vote!

[Foxymoron123]

2 years ago Mummy and Daddy split up.
Mummy met a new man. Daddy met a new woman.
Mummy and Daddy live in England. Daddy's girlfriend lives in Finland.
This year daddy wants to take Daughter (4) to Finland for christmas. Mummy doesn't want daughter to go because Christmas is a family time of year.
Daddy wants daughter to go because for the last 2 Christmases he has left England to go to Finland to be with girlfriend and has missed out seeing Daughter.
Daddy Says...
I have missed out on the last two years because I have gone to Finland. I enjoy xmas there and want to share the lovely experience I have there with my girlfriends family. The only reason why I can't have my daughter is because her mother doesn't want to be apart from her for xmas. I think my daughter would have a wonderful time in Finland. I want to take her for the 2 weeks over xmas and new year.
Mummy says...
Being separated parents means there is always compromise and sacrifice needed. I don't want my daughter to miss out on Christmas with her entire family and especially with me. I feel that Daddy chose to leave the country for those two years as he wanted to be with his girlfriend. I don't feel that walking away for 2 years justifies as a compromise for having her this year. I also know that Daddy's girlfriend has said she will never spend a christmas in England, refusing to acknowledge Daddy comes as a combined unit.

So who should Daughter spend Christmas with??

[bobjugs12]

Joe, we don't know all the details about Miss Finland. Maybe she doesn't travel at christma because she's got 3 kids and their Dad is nowhere to be seen. Maybe one of Miss Finlands kids is ill and cannot travel. Maybe Miss Finland doesn't want to come to England because UK Mummy is aggresive and violent. Maybe UK Daddy has chosen to go to Finland at Xmas because UK Mummy's family have said that they would beat him up if they saw him.

The OP is very one-sided and doesn't read very fair to me.

[joeluke]

Exactly......so we can only give our opinions on the facts available

[joeluke]

btw, no wonder he wants to spend xmas with her if she is Miss Finland!

[Greedyfly]

The girlfriend on the other hand should aknowledge that he has a daughter here. She should be more understanding towards the family situation with yourself and your ex.

[rowanwitch]

Well said Bobjugs, all I can infer from this is no one is putting the kids first... saying that when I was a kid i would have loved to go somewhere really cold and snowy for christmas Should never be Mummy V daddy which seem to be what is happening here

[annie0000]

I guess it depends on what relationship the child has with her father and how involved he is in her life and also what relationship the child has with the girlfriend. 2 weeks is a long time for a 4 year old to be away from their primary carer in this case, Mum. We also don't know how welcoming the girlfriend is likely to be. I don't think it matters so much about which days the child goes, whetehr it is Christmas day or New years or whatever, but until she is used to going away with her dad for at least a few days at a time and she can therefore judge what length of time is going to be acceptable, then I would think it is not right for him to take the child for two weeks. maybe they could spend the time between now and the nworking on the relationship between Dad, girlfriend and child so that Mum would maybe feel that a week away in Finland would be an enjoyable time for her daughter. I would hate to think of the wee might away in a foreign country while her Dad concentrates on his relationship with the girlfriend and she is without her Mum.

[jackthehat]

< Mummy doesn't want daughter to go because Christmas is a family time of year.>
Daddy is no longer regarded as family ?

<Daddy wants daughter to go because for the last 2 Christmases he has left England to go to Finland to be with girlfriend and has missed out seeing Daughter.>
How accommodating has Mummy been over the last 2 Christmases ? Perhaps Daddy thought he might as well go to Finland as he was going to get precious little time with his daughter anyway ?

< I enjoy xmas there and want to share the lovely experience I have there with my girlfriends family.>
That seems like an acceptable reason. He wants his daughter to experience a different sort of Christmas and let's face it Finland ought tobe magical at this sort of age.
<The only reason why I can't have my daughter is because her mother doesn't want to be apart from her for xmas.>
I would imagine 'that' is the entire crux of the matter.
<I think my daughter would have a wonderful time in Finland. I want to take her for the 2 weeks over xmas and new year.>
Perhaps this is a little too long. Christmas in Finland. New Year back in UK, although I doubt if the daughter will have much concept about New Year, anyway.
(cont)

[jackthehat]

(cont)
<Being separated parents means there is always compromise and sacrifice needed.>
This is a two-way street. Mummy is talking the talk...........can she walk the walk ?
<I don't want my daughter to miss out on Christmas with her entire family and especially with me.>
The *absolute* knub of the matter ! Daddy IS also her family.
<I feel that Daddy chose to leave the country for those two years as he wanted to be with his girlfriend.>
What arrangements had Mummy suggested to him for his involvement with his daughter over those past 2 Christmases ?

<I don't feel that walking away for 2 years justifies as a compromise for having her this year.>
What other options was daddy presented with ?

< I also know that Daddy's girlfriend has said she will never spend a christmas in England, refusing to acknowledge Daddy comes as a combined unit.>
Thepull to be with immediate family at Christmas-time is very strong, as Mummy has stated..........and yet the girlfriend is to be denied that opportunity. Again, I would ask what options were available for Daddy and the girlfriend for the last 2 Christmases ?

<So who should Daughter spend Christmas with?? >

Daddy, I think.

[joannie10]

I think at 4 it is a shame to take such a young child from their own home at Christmas - where Santa will find them! This is just our families opinion and I know that if you prefer otherwise then solutions could be given. Within my family we often go away at New Year - we would like to hire a lodge for Christmas but feel we need to wait until all the children are a bit older. The concern about Santa knowing where to come was something me and my siblings had that that is just how we feel. I do think though it is difficult when parents are split but when talking of compromise - could there not be some compromise from Daddy's girlfriend - she could perhaps come to the UK to spend with her partner and some careful explaining given to the child so that she is confident Santa knows where to go and yes she could spend it with her Daddy but Mummy would still get a bit of time. I know Christmas is not all about Santa but is the worry for most children that age.

[Foxymoron123]

Hello all.
Wow what a response.
Ok I will clear up some of the musings however I want to set one thing straight,
Our daughter is well loved and well taken care of. No disagreements go on in front of her and I (the mother) feel like I have taken a lot in making sure that she is NEVER used as a "pawn". I take that heat because her health and happiness is my main concern.
Ok now that's out of the way....
Mummy and Daddy share parenting in that daddy takes her every other weekend for 4 nights, dropping her with mummy in the day to be taken to nursery. He never takes her for any extra time on holidays.
In mentioning xmas is a family time of year I mean family. Not just mummy and daddy. But three sets of grandparents, cousins and aunties too.
Mummy's suggestion in the previous years has been to share. To even share the day. Mummy always shares her special girl with all the family at xmas, daddy should be included in that. Mummy has suggested spending time in a big group too. Daddy refuses to spend time with mummy as Daddy's girlfriend hates mummy and has never spoken to her. Not once. Mummy thinks that Mummy and Daddy were together for so long that daddy's girlfriend feels insecure. Mummy is patient with this as she would feel a bit blue about it too.
Mummy is very pro travelling for her little girl as she never got to experience it. Daddy is too.
Daddy's girlfriend is very young, she has younger siblings in Finland and wants to be there. She has no children. She is studying in England. She chose to do that for Daddy which is nice, she still however will not communicate with Mummy or budge on xmas. She can stay here. She won't.

[Foxymoron123]

Daddy will not pay for Mummy to go to Finland....not even if he were a billionaire! ;-)
Daddy does not want to take her for one week.
Xmas will not be in Lapland. It will be at Girlfriends parents house. It's cold. It's not Father Xmas's house. *rolls eyes* Home is not drizzly dudley. Home is everyone that loves and cares for her.
UK mummy is far from aggressive and violent haha!
Of course the situation is mummy v daddy! Daughter would have a good time in either place! Mummy and Daddy both love her and try to make her happy!
Daughter has never been away from mummy for a week or more before.
Mummy thinks Jack the Hate is a little rude. Of course I don't want to be apart from my daughter at christmas. Neither does daddy which is why we are at this position. However daddy has been happy to be away for 2 years previous even though mummy asked him to stay during this special time.
Daddy would have got lots of time with his daughter. He does when he asks. Daddy is very good at swanning off to finland whenever he feels like it regardless if it's during his custody.
Daddy is also good at refusing any extra time with his daughter so that mummy cannot do whatever she intended to. Mummy has not ONCE used her daughter in this way and always taken her with an "I'm her mother so I will take care of her" attitude even when mummys been ill.
Mummy constantly strives for harmony and in doing this feels like she is in a weak position.
Mummy has even gone so far as to suggest a shorter time in Finland or a different time of year for the same length.
When Mummy and Daddy split Daddy felt like he wanted to run away and ditch his old life but mummy fought hard to keep daddy in the picture until some of his hurt passed because she knew Daddy would want to be part of his daughters life.
Mummy hopes that this may clarify some of the musings here.

[Fish the Mod]

make it just one week in Finland

[bobjugs12]

Foxy, I didn't say you were violent or aggresive, nor did I say you lived in Dudley. I was giving examples of things that we didn't know.
However, reading your most recent post I get the impression that you are a proper 'woe is me' type victim.
Daddy is the big bad Little Bustard who swans off to Finland with his new younger girlfriend whilst Mummy is left at home being downtrodden and doing nothing but looking after others.

Read what you wrote objectively, then think about it. You state that you would never use your daughter as a tool, but that is exactly what it seems like you are doing. The whole post is about the fantastic job you do as mother and the crap job he does as a Dad. If it wasn't for the fact that I have nothing to do with Finland and have three kids, not one, I'd say you were my ex-wife. Reading between the lines I think you are jealous of what he has and the life he leads.

PS Lapland is in Finland

[4getmenot]

so we casted our votes so who won? and are you going to listen?

[dothawkes31]

Isn't it really really cold in Finland at Christmas? Why don't you all go to the canary island or somewhere less, cold?

[Foxymoron123]

Bob the jugs how very rude of you.
My post reads as sometimes daddy is very selfish but he's not a bustard and I did in fact mention that he makes his daughter happy and has her interests at heart too.
My daughter is not being used as a pawn at all and I resent you saying such a thing. I bust my butt to be a good mother and expect daddy to do the same. I am no victim and will not be singled out as one.
Your posts read as projection of your own feelings toward your ex. Not everyone is the same my dear.
I am in no way jealous of my ex. I'm happy he has found love I am just not comfortable with the the new girlfriend being selfish. Something that is partly due to her very young age. Honey I have enough security in myself to know that I'm a good woman and a good mother.
Yes I do help others and always strive for harmony and sometimes that has been to my detriment. HOWEVER, I don't see why I should be walked over in this situation.
I came here for advice and helpful opinions not uneducated judgement.

[kawakiri]

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

[Foxymoron123]

P.S Lapland is in Finland but not in Helsinki. P.P.S I'm not stupid and don't appreciate being spoken to as such.

[ummmm]

Actually.....I think you're pretty rude not Jack the 'hate' (What The Funicular?)

You're also telling this story like we are a bunch of 4 year olds.....

[bobjugs12]

Foxy,
I'm not gonna bother anymore because you will read and see what you want. You honestly beleive that you are right about this whole mess, and everyone else is wrong.