Tottenham Multiculturism

[modeller]

Last week we discussed multiculturism . Is Tottenham an example or isn't it a factor.

[sp1814]

Funny how certain people forget the poll tax riots and the G8 riots - mainly White middle class kids, and similar destruction of property.

Bigots have such a strange way of viewing things. If it doesn't fit into their narrow perspective, then it doesn't exist.

Hypocrites.

[ichkeria]

"/// I do not see the connection between a middle easten country wanting freedom and a riot in London sparked by the killing of a young man ///

The connection is not the cause of the riots, but the rioting in itself. "

You've confused me, also. Syria, for example, which is presumably one of the countries you are referring to, is monocultural compared to Britain. Does that not go against your argument? Or are you really saying that "white people" don't riot, or at least not as badly? In fact I think you baldly said as much.
Sounds racist to me I must say, if you don't mind me saying so.

The white racists who went on the rampage recently in Moscow against "black" Caucasians weren't holding back, I have to say.
Then again maybe if these nasty people went away such out of character behaviour would not be necessary :-)

[sp1814]

ichkeria

Furthermore - Greece is pretty much a monocultural country, but this is how the Daily Mail reported the riots this year:

"But this week’s events pose what some are describing as the biggest threat to international stability since the chaos of the 1930s, when the spectre of the Great Depression stalked through the Western world, with Nazism and Communism flourishing in its wake".

I've checked the pictures on this story...not many black faces:

http://www.dailymail....ear-Europe-apart.html

So, the question remains - why is multiculturalism being blamed for these riots? Is it just a handy hook for the usual ragtag of bigots and racists to hang their tattered arguments on?

Perhaps.

[anotheoldgit]

[Link removed.]

I enter this link only to try and prove my point, reading it seems rather extreme even to me, and I must warn you the pictures can be upsetting also.

Seeing some have put up the argument of what took place hundreds of years ago then I grant you, if we could see the pictures of these atrocities committed by the 'white man' then, then of course some would also be shocking.

But these scenes took place in 2010, and similar scenes could be shown from the present day Middle East conflicts and from such countries as South Africa and the Caribbean, I am sure we have all see scenes of motor tyres put around a victim and then set alight?

Can one say that if such persons who commit these acts were to attain asylum in the UK, their whole character would change overnight?

Before all the shouts of 'racist' or 'report' buttons pressed, please accept this opinion as a debating point, and disagree if you must but please also put up a valid argument of why I am wrong.

And if I have unintentionally offended anyone with my views, please accept my apologies, because I truly do not wish to offend anyone, only to make a point.

[ichkeria]

You are certainly not offending me, AOG: I have no problem with people expressing their views. I am, however, genuinely puzzled by the tenor of the argument with regard to multiculturalism: one argument goes: Tottenham, say, has lots of different ethnic communities ergo it must be doomed to the sort of violence we saw the other night. That is one point for discussion: but you seem to be backing it up by examples of people with "darker skin" rioting abroad. But many of these places are not multi-cultural to the extent places like Tottenham are.
The riots in Tottenham remind me very much of the trouble in Belfast recently - local grievances hijacked by a criminal element. I suggest that that is the real cause of Tottenham's recent problem.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Disagree all you like by all means, but please don't introduce such confrontational words such as 'Bigots' or 'Hypocrites', there is just no need for it, and it only alienates one from the other.

It may seem a strange way of viewing things to you, but then I could equally say the same against you, seeing that it doesn't fit into your narrow perspective.

So you see nothing is gained in argument, when it just reverts to 'name calling'.

[Gromit]

AOG: // Take what has happened recently in London, such a thing would not have happened in pre multi immigration England. //

Wrong. The British have a long tradition of rioting.

1517 - Evil May Day
1668 - Bawdy House Riots
1715 - English Political Riot, (London, England)[citation needed]
1720 - French Financial Riot, (Paris, France)[citation needed]
1721 - English Servants Riot, (London, England)[citation needed]
1727 - English Anti-Turnpike Riot, (Bristol, England)
1733 - London Anti-Tax Riot, (London, England)
1735 - English Anti-Turnpike Riots, (Hereford/Worcester, England)
1736 - Anti-Irish Riots, (Shoreditch/Spitalfields/Whitechapel, England)
1736 - Porteous Riots, (Edinburgh, Scotland)
1743 - London Gin Riots, (London, England)
1769 - Spitalfield Riots
1780 - Gordon Riots, (London, England)
1791 - Priestley Riots, (Birmingham, England)
1809 - Old Price Riots, 1809, (London, England)
1811-1812 - English Luddite Riots, (Leicester/York, England)
1814 - English Luddite Riots of 1814, (Leicester/York, England)
1816 - English Luddite Riots of 1816, (Leicester/York, England)
1830 - Swing Riots, (south and east of England)
1831 - Bristol Riots, (Bristol, England)
1910 - Tonypandy Riot (South Wales, UK)
1919 - Battle of Bow Street, (Bow Street, London, UK)
1919 - Luton Peace Day Riots, Luton U.K.
1936 - Battle of Cable Street, (London, England)

[emmie]

There seems to have been any number of people who marched peacefully, not sure for how long, as others took a more shall we say violent role, and their aim was to do battle with the police, others were there to loot and rob, not sure it makes a difference who does it, white, black or brown, they are criminals, and hopefully will be caught and get punished for their sins.
As has been pointed out rioting in the capital seems to be whoever gets their first.

[Zeuhl]

from wikipaedia

<<The Riot Act[1] (1714) (1 Geo.1 St.2 c.5) was an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain that authorised local authorities to declare any group of twelve or more people to be unlawfully assembled, and thus have to disperse or face punitive action. The Act, whose long title was "An act for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies, and for the more speedy and effectual punishing the rioters", came into force on 1 August 1715, and remained on the statute books until 1973.>>

Evidently the Act was brought in after Ye Dailie Mayle mounted a sustained campaign to generate hysteria in 'middle england'.

[AB Editor]

Thanks for that Gromit. Very interesting reading to be found there - the Evil May Day Riots in particular.

[sp1814]

Gromit

Thank you for the post. What happens after these riots is that bigots (whose agenda it is to assign characteristics based on race - ergo 'bigot' will try to argue that race was the single determining factor in the weekend's troubles.

When presented with (say) Northern Ireland and Greece, they can't answer.

[sp1814]

There should be a bracket after the second iteration of 'bigot'!

[emmie]

Makes interesting reading the first one, The Evil May Day riot, not heard of it before.

[Zeuhl]

Doesn't Gromit understand the 'cut and thrust' of <debating>

He has just killed Old Git's point stone dead with the underhanded tactic of using Facts and a historical perspective!

How rude! Shame on you Gromit.
.

[anotheoldgit]

ichkeria

So glad we can conduct a debate without any offence being caused, at least by some.

You mentioned Ireland, well can you see such riots taking place in England over two religions, we have not had problems with Catholics since Tudor times.

But that is not to say that a religion such as Islam could not cause such confrontation on the streets of England?

Now I don't wish to go off on a religious attack, only to desperately try and get my argument over that certain cultures, races and religions have their own built in attitudes, built into their personalities.

It is not a matter of skin colour 'per say' (as some would care to make it), but culture and attitudes, it just happens that the areas and countries that I have mentioned, happen to be populated by people who happen to have darker skins than Europeans.

I am afraid that fact cannot be altered.

Please accept my apologies modeller for seemingly high-jacking your question, but I have finished now and await other's points of view, because it has now become obvious that I will not be able convince others, that no harm is intended by my arguments.

[berniecuddles]

lol caulk & cheese =trigger & AOG still at each others throats sad!!!

[berniecuddles]

"chalk" apologies

[DTCwordfan]

Since when has Britain not been multicultural - we have had wave after wave of immigration.

What were the Normans (displaced Vikings mixed in with French)
What were the Bretons here in Cornwall
What were the Vikings
What were the Romans
What were the Celts

and more recently

The Jewish over the centuries, the Irish, the Poles, the folk from the Carribean, the Hugenots, and I could go on.

Really you ought to brush up on your history, AOG. Tut tut.

And I can just see hanging drawing and quartering with heads hung off where, Admiralty Arch? or Nick Griffin's London residence? coming back into vogue.

These were well-communicated riots between ultra-right and left trouble makers stirring up shyte for shyte's sake. Pure bloody vanadalism, nothing more. I see the police have 150 of the little basstards arrested and I hoep they catch the lot and throw the book at them.

Sure there is an issue to what the trigger was and that needs addressing as does the structural and social degradation of an inner London suburb like Tottenham reflects. That will be addressed in the due and proper way.

In many ways, thanks be that this flashed this summer and not next year.

Meanwhile, put the incidents in proper persepctive, vandalism and incitement to loot and destroy. I just pray that the police and MI5 get at the ring leaders behind scenes and really put the legal squeeze on these social zits.