A Sentance So Richly Deserved.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324254/Tia-Sharps-killer-Stuart-Hazell-jailed-38-years-parole.html

At last a sentence to fit the crime, he will be 75 years old before he is released.

Yesterday Tia's father said that, whatever jail sentence this monster received, he should be hanged at the end of it.

Does anyone agree?

[jim360]

What then are your replies to the counter-arguments? And I don't mean just by dismissing them out of hand.

[jim360]

At a fundamental level in the law, though, "How would I feel" is irrelevant. Law cannot be based on emotional responses. However tragic the case may be.

It's worth taking a look at the Norwegian Prison system. Despite going against everything your post effectively stands for, it also seems to work far better than our current, or previous, system. Why that is, I don't know exactly. But treating prisoners with human decency is presumably at the heart of it.

Of course, some people are evil no matter what you can do to try to help them. I don't see that killing them is particularly the answer. It just drags us down to their level.

[askyourgran]

Zeul your analogy is pretty poor, anyone who commits such atrocities should be given the treatment Stuart Hazell killed an innocent young girl, he should be given the same treatment.
Jim if you are addressing me, you should have said so, I don't give a t*ss about the Norwegian Prison system. All that concerns me is that men like Hazell should take the punishment. I'm off to bed.

[hc4361]

So you would make killers out of good men or women, askyourgran? To hang or give lethal injection is to kill, after all, and somebody would have to do it.

In my opinion the death penalty is no penalty at all. To live for years knowing what you have done; seeing hatred and contempt in other peoples' eys; fearing for your own safety day in, day out; rejection of your loved ones; not having one minute of silence in a day - that is punishment.

Death is a swift and benign punishment.

[grasscarp]

I agree with much of what is posted here. But where were the mother and the father and the grandmother? They knew about this man and his past. What he did is so terrible but he was given opportunity by those who should have been watching their child.

[hc4361]

The father hadn't seen his daughter for at least 10 years, nor supported her in any way.

Mum liked to foist Tia on to grandma so she could go on the razz.

[Zeuhl]

Askyourgran

So you're conceding

/Stuart Hazell killed an innocent young girl, he should be given the same treatment/

You too think executing Hazell is the 'same' as what he did

You may be ok with operating at his level - many of us are somewhat better than that

[Khandro]

Fred West hanged himself, perhaps we should give all these creatures the opportunity to take a similar action, the famous 'revolver on the balcony' scenario.

[jno]

my feeling about Fred West, and Harold Shipman too, is that they escaped justice.

[jim360]

ayg -- the Norwegian systrem is worth studying if it has any lessons for us about how to deal with prisoners in general. Just killing people solves the problem for that crime, and that crime only. Ultimately we should be interested not in punishing criminals harshly after the fact -- by then it's too late to do anyone much good -- but in trying to reduce the chances that the crime was committed at all. If Norway, or if anywhere else, has lessons for us in that we should listen.

[anneasquith]

slightly off original post . sorry aog, as I read it, this murderer was a partner of tia.s mother, he then became partner of the grand mother. both females knew he had been to prison on two occasions, tia preferred to spend the majority of her time at the grandmothers ? all sounds a bit weird to me.

[Khandro]

jno; Hanging oneself is maybe escaping justice, but it is 'just', and it saves the taxpayer a great deal of money to boot.

[mikey4444]

I don't agree with the death penalty but I just can't see the point of imprisoning a man for 38 years and then hung. Am I missing something here ?

[LazyGun]

Well, I think the point being made by the father was that he felt that simply incarcerating Hazell, however long the term, was simply insufficient - more retribution to balance out the loss of a loved one.

I can understand the origin of the emotion, I can sympathise even - but I cannot agree. Nor do I agree with capital punishment. It is an uncivilised action, and we should as individuals and as a society aspire to be civilised.

[Purple_Popple]

I would say to hanging. But castration without anesthesia!

[andy-hughes]

I am mystified by this argument that execution 'saves the tax payer money'.

If you want to adopt that position, why not do away with prisons altogether? Let each town have its own cadre of vigilantes (self-appointed of course!) and they can dish out beatings, castrations, amputations electrocutions, all to their own particular agenda of who deserves what.

And if we are saving money - let's not bother with welfare anymore, for anyone - let everyone sink or swim on their own merits.

You see - not 'saving the tax payer money' by executing people becomes a nasty end of a seriously nasty wedge.

We use tax payers' money to pay to keep prisoners behind bars because we have a civilised system of legal redress - from the trivial to the serious, and the notion that you can simply snuff out a life on oecconomic reasons is utterly barbaric.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// take your point AOG - I think ths suggestion of 'blodd lust's is inappropriuate, and hopefully JTP will reflect, and offer an apology. ///

I am still waiting for an apology from JTP, looks like I am in for a long wait.

[andy-hughes]

Looks like it - but I think unconnected personal abuse is uncalled for.

People can get into heated debate - heaven knows you and I know that! But on occasions when people type first and think afterwards, then an apology is the mature way to go - and again, you and I both know that too.

[Khandro]

andy-hughes; in case you are referring to my post re.'saves the tax payer money'.
You should be able to see above that I posit the 'Fred West' scenario, lightheartedly, but there is a serious point behind it. Ian Brady has been force-fed every day for years, all he has wanted is the right to die, so I say let him do so. Your ideas of vigilantes and the scrapping 'everything' to save state funds contributes nothing to the debate.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - my reference was to the woryingly larrge numbers of people who post on here with the 'saving tax payers' money' argument.

I fail to see how you can be 'light-hearted' about a murderer who commits suicide.

The notion of assisting the suicide of anyone convicted of murder is possible even more cold and unfeeling than the notion of ticking a balance sheet with a human life.

We do not murder our prisoners, neither do we extend them the means to kill themselves - because either option is uncivilised.

The entire point about incarceration is the loss of freedom of choice - and no amount of television or X-Boxes can make up for that.

Ian Brady has lost his personal liberty as punishment for his crime - and with that punishment is the built-in inability to escape from it. Anyone who wants him to suffer must surely conceed that he does - on a daily basis. Not to the extent of his vistims - but as far as a civilised legal system will allow.