Are You One Of The Good People Of Britain That This Person Is Referring To?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2918016/Transgender-American-woman-afford-gender-reassignment-surgery-coming-UK-FREE-operation.html

/// She said: 'I know the good people of Britain won't mind funding my dream' ///

[Mamyalynne]

Retrocop - a sad case indeed, happens a lot when people don't take out insurance.


Back to the case in point and to reiterate something said a fair few times, Gina is using YouTube and the Media to get publicity for the surgery - doubt the plan to arrive here and obtain it on the NHS will ever come to fruition.

Perhaps you missed all those references along the way.

[jim360]

"But Retrocop's basic idea that those in favour of us giving this sort of treatment might like to chip in and pay for it doesn't seem outlandish (in theory) to me."

It's not that outlandish, perhaps, and indeed this may end up being what actually happens, in that the publicity generated will encourage some people to find the funding she needs to have the surgery in the US.

What many people were bothered by were the attitudes to the gender debate retrocop was showing. And then references to "shrinks", and all manner of stuff besides, which shows a serious misunderstanding of the issues.

[retrocop]

For those who choose to call me crude and ill- informed I refer the lesser informed to the The Chamber's Dictionary.
n. (inf) person who for deliberate effect, publicity or amusement adopts a sexually ambiguous public image and style (in dress, hairstyle, male-up etc)
The word gender bender is not described as obs (obsolete) slang, derogatory or arch (archaic).
It is described as an informal noun and is still in use in the modern English language. Nothing crude or ill informed about the word at all.

[jim360]

But then, referrinf to that definition, is she doing this for amusement? No. Is she doing it for publicity? No -- this is a permanent life choice. Is she doing is for deliberate effect? Is she meaning to present an "ambiguous public image"? No, she's presenting as unambiguously female and if you didn't know her past, you might well see her as that.

The use of "gender-bender" in this context is wholly inappropriate, retrocop.

[Mamyalynne]

I agree...


//person who for deliberate effect, publicity or amusement adopts a sexually ambiguous public image and style//

Not one who is prepared to endure long and arduous painful surgery and psychiatric scrutiny to address their deep seated gender issues.

[Mamyalynne]

There are many words and phrases in my countless reference books I would shy away from using on here.

[retrocop]

divebuddy
Glad you do not wear those rose tinted specs.
Being referred to as "retrodope" is precisely what cheesed me off but I suppose I should expect it from that quarter. She always gets rude when someone's point of view differs from hers.

[jim360]

Of course he's entitled to the opinion, but I'm therefore equally entitled to say that it is wrong. Very wrong, indeed.

Personal attacks don't make your position any stronger at all, although granted they can make the attacker's position weaker sometimes.

[chaptazbru2]

I'm one of the people who agree with him db and don't give a stuff if some abers don't like it !! Like I've said before far too many do-gooders on here !!! Sits back and waits for usual comments ........

Won't be responding though.

[jim360]

I suppose the catch is that there are two debates here, whether the surgery should be offered at all, and whether it should be offered to people coming here from abroad. In both cases I'd say that the answer is yes (although to the second, only if certain preconditions are met. It seems some people who are objecting to the surgery being carried out on this person also have a problem with the concept of the surgery existing at all, as shown by some of the language they have used. Transgenderism is a sensitive topic for many, though, so it's not surprising that the discussion should get heated.

[retrocop]

jim
The word is "funding" in the OP title. That is the subject under debate. I am saying IMO no one should expect to come here from any other country, including the EEC, and expect non life saving, expensive surgery by the NHS for nothing. It would be done at great cost, financially, and at great cost potentially to someone's life if a bed is denied those who are entitled to NHS treatment and require urgent treatment.
Perhaps that is why the NHS is in such trouble due to health tourists being allowed to get away with it.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// If you're thinking of modern Africa as an example, AOG, the catch to that is that the chief opposition to homosexuality, etc, in places such as Nigeria, stems from evangelical Christianity -- ///

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Islam, could it?

Why are some always ready to place the blame at Christianity's door, but fall short of blaming Islam, for some reason?

[jim360]

So long as you accept that terms such as "gender bender" in this context are totally wrong.

As to Health Tourism -- yes, it's not ideal if people are coming to the country for the sole purpose of getting free healthcare. But this is not as serious a problem as it's been made to look. Estimated costs from what might be termed "genuine" health tourism (ie, healthcare given to this who had no other reason to be in the UK) is estimated to be closer to maybe £12 million. This is almost certainly an underestimate, but the definition is tricky so it's hard to tell how bad the figure is. A fairly bad estimate might make the figure read something closer to £50 million. At any rate, this is rather a lot less than 1% of the total budget for the NHS, and other costs or drains on the services are going to be more important. In the meantime, it does work other ways and various health services abroad may have to take on costs to cover for healthcare needed by British nationals. Like so many things, we can benefit from it also.

(sources: http://www.england.nhs.uk/allocations-2013-14/ ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-visitors-and-migrant-use-of-the-nhs-extent-and-costs)

[jim360]

I dare say certain radical Islamic countries also have a problem with this (although it's worth pointing out that in Iran, the problem with Gender reassignment surgery is that it can sometimes be forced on an individual by the state, rather than denied to the individual!), but Nigeria is a predominantly Christian country and so Christianity -- in particular evangelical Christianity -- must take its share of the blame.

[jim360]

"As of 2008, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand."

"Khomeini's original fatwa [which allows transsexual women in Iran to live as women until they can afford surgery, have surgical reassignment, have their birth certificates and all official documents issued to them in their new gender, and get married to men] has since been reconfirmed by the current leader of Iran, Ali Khamenei, and is also supported by many other Iranian clerics."

Perhaps incredibly, Islam doesn't necessarily have a problem with this at all, in fact. Again, sorry AOG, but this is more of a Christian thing, both historically and at present.

[Retrochic]

divebuddy -why do you have to start on me? why make it personal? have you a problem? I have started no arguments on this thread whatsoever but will reply to misogynist or homophobic remarks how I feel fit. maybe you should stick to chatterbank until you grasp the concept of debate.

[Retrochic]

Retrocop -I am going to have to apologize to you even though it does stick in my throat - predictive text changed your cop to dope and I didn't even realise. Unlike some I really don't need to stoop to personal attacks to air my point of view. Strangely enough we seem to be on the same page in this debate, though I'm sure you can misconstrue something to change that.