This Green And Pleasant Land?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3290641/Two-young-women-two-men-brawl-outside-KFC-middle-day-shocking-video-one-shouts-dissing-mum.html

Why the change? Croydon was such a nice place once, and to see women fighting in the street, if it ever happened was very, very rare.

[Mamyalynne]

I don't know if such brawls are more common or more commonly filmed etc - I always found them decidedly ugly to see.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //Thank you, that is exactly my point, when I referred to Dr Crippen and Ruth Ellis, and as you have now brought to the list, the Krays and the Richardsons.

Why? Because in those days such criminals were a rarity, but nowadays, there are far too many to remember. //

I think these are distinct examples, and that is why their names are known.

Crippen was the first murderer caught by use of the newly invented telegraph.

Ellis was the last woman to be hung in this country.

The Krays made it their life's work to be famous, and courted the media and show business stars of the day, being photographed as often as possible.

The Richardsons became drawn into the Kray's orbit by virtue of being their south London equivalent - and the 'glamour' involved.

All of them were sad miserable individuals, given kudos and fame far outreaching their actual impact on society as a whole - the precursor of the 'celebrity' system we are surrounded by now.

[anotheoldgit]

RandyMarsh

/// What are you saying?, that there were no murders back then? ///

I know this is half-term, but what kind of poster do we have here?

One apparently that is now speculating, not on the question that I asked, but now what this poster assumes I am saying.

[mccfluff]

this appears to be a letter written into the croydon advertiser complaining about intoxicated men and women fighting in the streets - in 1926, so when you say "why the change" what is the 'before' date you had in mind?

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/mccfluff/croydon1926_zpsihc7hmvo.png

was this you AOG or maybe a relative, i can only imagine that before the internet, the local/national paper was how you complained about the fall of society??

[Canary42]

Why oh why are you all flocking to condemn AOG's post.

You all know how he loves running down this lovely country of ours at every opportunity. He's dyed-in-the-wool anti-British.

[anotheoldgit]

/// I think these are distinct examples, and that is why their names are known. ///

/// Crippen was the first murderer caught by use of the newly invented telegraph. ///

That may well be but that was not his crime, his crime was the fact that he murdered his wife, how many of today's wife murderers can you name, of which there are very many, which is my point.

/// Ellis was the last woman to be hung in this
country. ///

Once again she was well known long before she went to the gallows.

/// All of them were sad miserable individuals, given kudos and fame far outreaching their actual impact on society as a whole - the precursor of the 'celebrity' system we are surrounded by now. ///

If as you say, we are now surrounded by the celebrity system, why have not the largest amount of gang masters, killers etc that we see now, achieved this celebrity status?

[andy-hughes]

Canary - //You all know how he loves running down this lovely country of ours at every opportunity. He's dyed-in-the-wool anti-British. //

This may be an AB record - but I am going to defend AOG twice in one day!

Whatever else AOG may be, he is the possible living incarnation of all things British - in the accepted sense of that term.

I can only assume that knowing him as I know you do, you are playing devil's advocate, which is perfectly fine - or looking for a fight, which is not.

[Gromit]

Because we have YouTube (and links to it in newspapers) does not mean there has been a change in behaviour. There are NOT thousands of videos of women fighting in the UK. This one has been highlighted because it is unusual, not that common. So to take it, as proof that there has been a big change in society is false.
The fact that you did not see reports to such fights in the past in national newspapers, may be because the function of newspapers has changed. This would not have passed as news 50 years ago. Newspapers have changed from telling the news to being entertainment. They are filled with trivia, gossip, chatter and novelty items such as this.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //If as you say, we are now surrounded by the celebrity system, why have not the largest amount of gang masters, killers etc that we see now, achieved this celebrity status?//

Because modern criminals are clandestine, and media celebrities are not.

Put simply - the first's career ends very quickly if attention is drawn to them, the second's career ends very quickly if it is not!

[andy-hughes]

Gromit - //They are filled with trivia, gossip, chatter and novelty items such as this.//

What a horrible indictment on our society, that people visiting random violence on each other in public is seen as a 'novelty item' - and I am appalled that I cannot disagree with that description,

[RandyMarsh]

Is that a little personal dig is it AOG?, the kind that you throw your toys out about when aimed at you?

You are telling us that these things never happened in your day but your day is littered with violent crime and criminals, some of our most famous criminals were either committing crime in your day or born in your day.

You tell me that there are more famous criminals today than can be counted but do not offer any names of these criminals.

[anotheoldgit]

Anyone knew a pervert such as this when they were young?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3290574/Teenager-stabbed-two-schoolgirls-leaving-one-blind-raped-two-not-come-terms-gay-jailed-17-years.html

Yes of course because but there was simply no TV or papers to report on them!!!!!!! LOL

[RandyMarsh]

Now, you saying there was no rape?

[Gromit]

Newspapers lost the battle to be first with the news with the advent of television and latterly 24 hour rolling news channels.
They have changed into commentating on recent past events. Recent past events can mean news, but it can also mean the latest Twitter Storm, facebook or YouTube. So a video that goes viral will get written about, discussed, conclusions made (probably wrong ones), prejudices confirmed and used to promote the newspaper in question, wider agenda.

[mccfluff]

now this one is i think 2 women having a fight with a brick and a pram, there seems to be an adult son and a husband involved as well. not really sure what happened but it appears to be in the street, no-one famous and reported 05/05/39

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/mccfluff/croy.1926_zps938sex64.png

[anotheoldgit]

RandyMarsh

/// You tell me that there are more famous criminals today than can be counted but do not offer any names of these criminals. ///

First I did not say there are more 'famous' criminals today, but what I did say was that there are that many criminals these days that they do not reach celebrity status, or even have their names remembered, even though these days we have the benefit of mass media which some are constantly telling us about.

As in the link I posted earlier, who will remember the name Callum Stroomer, after today? Only those closely associated with him.

[Gromit]

McFluff
What site are you using to read the newspaper archives?

[mccfluff]

its the british newspaper archive, i think its subscription though, i get access through work

see if this works, its reporting on a rape of a 16 year old girl by a soldier - dated 30/11/54

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000687/19541130/148/0008

[sp1814]

Can you explain what 'pervert' means to you?

Specifically in relation to the story you linked to.

[mikey4444]

Low lifes, all of them !