Gordon Brown, "Uk Could Become A Failed State" ......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-must-reform-the-union-or-risk-uk-becoming-a-failed-state-12198125
Well if it does it'll be primarily your beloved Noo Labour's fault me old china, for enacting the devolution catastrophe. Is it time to reverse that and bring the Union back together? TBH I think England will thrive without the millstones of Wales, Scotland and NI anyway so it's them that need to get their April in gear.

[Ellipsis]

I just did. Here it is again:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/rise_parliament/transcripts/articles_union.htm
I. That the two Kingdoms of England and Scotland shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and for ever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain. And that the Ensignes Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as her Majesty shall appoint. And the Crosses of St. George and St. Andrew be Conjoined in such manner as her Majesty shall think fit, and used in all Flaggs, Banners, Standards and Ensignes both at Sea and Land.

[ToraToraTora]

nope you just found the status quo not the future.

[Ellipsis]

The status quo will not be the status quo if Scotland leaves. Leaving means undoing the above Act.

[ToraToraTora]

I disagree, have you found an expert that verifies your claims yet?

[THECORBYLOON]

Is there a definitive answer for either opinion?

[ichkeria]

If Scotland, part of Great Britain, is no longer part of the United Kingdom, then plainly, whatever your view on the subject is, the UK can no longer be the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
It's already had to change once, from "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland"

[ToraToraTora]

ich, I disagree, I have asked a dozen times for evidence of that opinion, I don't accept that 8% can dissolve 100%.

[ichkeria]

I am not saying that it dissolves the union (if that is what you mean)
I am just saying that the name would no longer be correct and plainly would have to change.

Even if it's eventually just the "United Kingdom of England and, er ..." it's still the UK, if that is what you want to call it.

[jim360]

Does a marriage still exist after a divorce?

Of course the UK won't be the UK any more if Scotland leaves, at least in essence. And, even in the case where we were still allowed to, you'd get not very long odds on English people wishing to change the name to something different.

[JimF]

Surely the obvious solution would to rename whatever is left, after Scotland leaves, as 'Britain'. Hardly anyone refers to it as 'Great Britain' these days - maybe on maps. People say that they are 'British', not 'Great British'; that they have a 'British' passport, not a 'Great British' passport, etc. The sign on the Southbound A74(M) would simply say 'Welcome to Britain' instead of 'Welcome to England'.

[ichkeria]

It would still be the United Kingdom" just the "United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland"
Then the "United Kingdom of England and Wales"
Then ...

[ToraToraTora]

so the EUSSR was dissolved when we left was it jim? think it through. I have done all the answers to all the points above. At least untitled shut up when he realise he was wrong. I'll comment when someone finds an expert to back up their opinion. I have provided two links, yes TCL not definitive, but I proceed from the status quo.

[THECORBYLOON]

JIM, they'd not like the "Great" taken out of "Great Britain", would they?

[JimF]

"so the EUSSR was dissolved when we left was it"

For heaven's sake! A union of nations was reduced from 28 to 27. Under what possible universe would that require a name change?

When a union of two kingdoms loses one of those kingdoms, how can it still be a union of a kingdom? Which two kingdoms would be united?

[Ellipsis]

My "expert" is the definition of Kingdom of Great Britain that you can see in the Act of Parliament that I linked to and quoted above. If you can't see that the United Kingdom of Great Britain equals the Kingdom of England plus the Kingdom of Scotland, and therefore removing the Kingdom of Scotland leaves just the Kingdom of England, not the United Kingdom of Great Britain, then I can't help further, sorry.

[ichkeria]

"Britain" is a vague term. Some think it's the same as UK, others think it's the same as Great Britain. It's a confusion that I don't think is wholly resolvable. GB and Ireland are the British Isles but plainly the Rep of Ireland is not British while N Ireland is.
What is clear is that Scotland leaving the UK would mean having to change the small print or full name, if not the UK bit.
It would still be a union as long as there were bits to unite.
Same as the EU is still the EU if you want to bring that into it

[ichkeria]

"When a union of two kingdoms loses one of those kingdoms, how can it still be a union of a kingdom? Which two kingdoms would be united?"

That's not right either. It's a union of four countries. But three of them are under the one name. Admittedly the only other "Kingdom" historically is "Scotland" but I think that has been lost to history now.

[ToraToraTora]

jimf: "For heaven's sake! A union of nations was reduced from 28 to 27. Under what possible universe would that require a name change? " - I agree it would silly but that is what several above are saying will happen when 4 nations become 3.

[ichkeria]

I explained why it could no longer be called the "Union of Great Britain and N Ireland" while still a Union.
If the full name of the EU was "the European Union of ....... and The UK", that would change too, but it wasn't so it hasn't

[ToraToraTora]

TCL 18:49 great is a geographical designation of the largest Island in the group, Scotland would still be part of it even if they left the UK.