Muslin extremists

[mycatis]

OK OK I know this is going to make me sound stupid, but what exactly do these people actually want?? Why are the terrorists so keen on murdering us? If they hate us so much why do they live in Britain and America? I honestly don't understand what they want!

[searchme]

I'm with you keyvan- I'm positive that the quote is inaccurate -surely it says 'all unbelievers should be beheaded'?

[bill barlow]

Keyvan..........firstly it is not obvious you are new here. Secondly I have not done extensive research into Islam. I read the Koran after the London bombings to try and get some insight into what makes these people tick. It is littered with references to killing the infidel, I can not now point you to a particular chapter or verse, you will have to read it like I did. I seem to remember "the cow" had several references though. Try that first.

[keyvan]

Bill. I meant it is obvious that I am new as it is my first post on this topic. I hope this is clear! First of all, I have no remorse for those terrorists and the July bombing attrocities, so we have common grounds there. Let's not mix the issues. All I just asked was if you have read Koran so many times then you would know where these references "all the non believers must be killed" or similar verses were mentioned. btw I have read Koran not because I'm religious but because I had an interest just like you.

[bill barlow]

Keyvan...............I have not read the Koran many times and am not an expert. I have read it once. I cannot believe if you read it you did not come across many passages saying to kill the infidel, I don,t think anybody disputes it is in there either,not even moderate Muslims. Anyway, try "the cow" , I am sure it is there amongst many,many more.

[keyvan]

Bill. Books are open for interpretation and Koran is no exception to that. The action of certain individuals/ terrorists does not qualify to draw a conclusion that it's because Koran said so. However, I think that we have differences of opinion on this issue and believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion so let's leave it at that!

[bill barlow]

From "the cow"

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

This should be read in context, of course.

[bill barlow]

Sorry keyvan, posted that last post without reading yours. You are right. We,ll leave it at that.

[AliFlump]

I shall post my answer and run the risk of being called a racist

The cartoons that were published were of Mohammed with a bomb for a turban i believe, the Muslims were offended by this because it portrayed them as terrorists. So, to protest they burn the Danish embassy's and march around with plaques saying 'Mock Today, Die Tomorrow Denmark' and ' Behead all those who insult Islam'. Not exactly proving people wrong is it!

I while ago i was all for live and let live, if they are over here they are getting treated bad in their own country and need help, fair enough. But now it seems that they are not happy with this.

Ask yourself this, If Christians were to go to a Muslim country and build churches and practice their religon, would they be allowed to do this? I very much doubt it.

This country has been good enough to take these people in give them homes, they have built their temples and mosques, practiced their religon and have lived as they liked for a long time. That i dont have a problem with but when they start to threaten the country that has been good to them then i get angry.

I know that their has obvioulsy been trouble in the past and they havent all led a blissfull life but it has never been like this.

Perhaps if they want a Muslim country, they should go live in one.

[madein1978]

My last and final words on the subject are, that bill barlow is totally spot on, IT DOES say in the koran that the infidel or non-believer must be killed if they cannot be converted, this is not BNP racism, it is the word of allah. The muslims in this country are the enemy within and our wonderful labour government has let them in, attempted to brainwash us in to thinking that they are like us brits and like us brits by giving us all this jive about not being racist and not to say anything bad about the muslim faith, why does the government protect them so, even after Abu Hamza, the 7/7 bombers and last Sundays atrosity where they openly and blatently declared their hatred for the country which has hosted and subsidised them. I despair, and I will move when I have saved enough, I don't wish be part of a country whos government turns against the people who are so indigenous to it, I have my ancestry with a highland clan, you can't say I don't belong to Britain!!

[madein1978]

And before anyone says, I know about the battles between the Scottish and the English, but at least I'am british, I mean no harm to anyone and I'am a christian. I still believe in Britain, but without a decent government with a bit of backbone, we are lost!

[Gevs1966]

madein1978, bill barlow et al, it is interesting how you make reference to the Koran and its writings of killing the non believers and then judge all muslims as supporting terrorist attrocities.

Can you tell me if you judge all Christians in the same way? What about Jews?

The reason I ask is that the holy books of Islam, Christianity and Judaism ALL have the same base it is only the latter parts that differ. Have you read the Old Testament? It is a hate filled piece of literature that preaches murder and the killing of non worshippers at regular intervals.

Does this mean that all Christians will passively support extremist actions against non believers also? Will you be so quick to condemn them too??

I think not!

[Goodsoulette]

madein......i was not inferring that it didnt say that in there. I was just suggesting that EVERY muslim wanted ALL nonbelievers DEAD sounded like BNP propaganda. Which just goes to show how different people see different things in what they read.

I consider myself generally a good Christian but I had an adulterous relationship with a fellow christian yet my holybook says I shouldnt do this but I still did, So I am sure most muslims realise that a book written a very long time ago with references to killing the infadels is out of context with this day and age.

[bill barlow]

Gevs 1966...........I agree with you the old testement is full off hate and calls to kill, but it was written before the birth if Christ (If you believe in it).

I would certainly condem any Christian who proposed death to non believers, the problem with your arguement is there aren,t any, or do you know different?

[Gevs1966]

I fail to see the relevance of it being written before the birth of christ as essentially all three books use it as their base and the origin of their religion.

There are Christian extremists, particularly in America who carry out killings and other terrorist actions against non christians.

By your logic, all christians around the globe will be passively supporting them and therefore are equally liable to be condemned for the minorities actions.

[GruntFuttock]

Yes and we're all terrified of Christian extremists aren't we?

[bill barlow]

Gevs1966.............Your first paragraph I will ignore.If you can not see the relevence then so be it.

You say there are Christian extremeists in the US who carry out terrorist attacks and killings on non Christians?? I was not aware off this. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction where I could read about this? Thank you..

[Gevs1966]

Could you please explain the relevance to my point of the time it was written? My point is that all three religions share the old testament as the basis of their faith so why should muslims be open to criticism and not christians and jews?

I have no specific links for you but many documentaries and newspaper articles I have seen over the past few years highlight issues regarding chrisitan extremists, they just aren't so well publicised.

As a start, you could use the internet to look up information on the Christian Identity Movement who have been know to kill people for not practising "christian law"

[bill barlow]

Gevs1966............I agree with you all 3 religions share the old testement as the basis for there religion, ie the existance of a God. The difference is Christians follow the teachings of Christ and Muslims follow the teachings of Mohammed. Christ did not advocate total domination and the slaughter of non believers. Mohammed did. Its that simple, you CAN NOT be a Muslim and not seek domination,it is a very important part of the faith.

Thank you for pointing me towards the CIM. I will certainly look into it.I suspect it is just a racist group who may have killed a few blacks,but if what you say is true you will have opened my eyes a bit further BUT it does not mean that all Christians will be passively supporting them, that is not the teaching of Christ.

[bill barlow]

I have just read in the press that Hamid Ali,the Imam at a Leeds mosque, has been secretly recorded as rejoicing at the London bombings. At the time he publicly condemned them. Adds a little weight to my arguement I feel?

[*ALFIE*]

Firstly, we are obvisouly entitled to our own opinions and secondly, bare in mind that not all people practice religions. So what i'm trying to say, that not all muslims are religious anyway. I know some who are extremely moderate, some don't practice at all and some who are religious. The problem is lying within the "some who are religious" catagory. Despite what i have read so far, especially from bill barlow, I think its unfair to point your finger at the mojority of muslims in the country - their not all on the same wave length.

Do you all actually believe in religion ? some us are true christian some aren't, same with the catholics. Its just a real case of misinterpretation of the Koran and Islam. Infact, its all about greed.