Listener Crossword 4099: Double Devilry by Pointer

[Zabadak]

A nice challenge and a clever construction, but as you can see, a quick finish. I'm interested to know whether others see what to do before or after discerning the 10 letter word. Cheers to Pointer, and now to find something else to do over the weekend.

[midazolam]

it depends whether you are good at printer devilry clues or not! They are like marmite

[dr b]

There seem to be competing threads going on....

http://www.theanswerb...s/Question926976.html

[Zabadak]

Sorry 'bout that: we seem to have posted around the same time. However, the others aren't playing, which is a shame, because I thought this was a good bit of fun. I can accept that PD might not be everyone's CoT, but this is not that tough. So I guess if you just want to moan about PD, try the other thread. To celebrate a neat puzzle, sty here.

[Zabadak]

Sorry 'bout that: we seem to have posted around the same time. However, the others aren't playing, which is a shame, because I thought this was a good bit of fun. I can accept that PD might not be everyone's CoT, but this is not that tough. So I guess if you just want to moan about PD, try the other thread. To celebrate a neat puzzle, stay here.

[Mamyalynne]

Very double devilry then LOL

[dr b]

OK, a clarifying question before I give this thing a go: "Clues are given for the six-letter entries only, in the normal order for each grid" - does this just mean the 5 acrosses followed by the 5 downs?

[daagg]

Zab, I found the 10-letter word before I realised what what going on. Dr b, the clues are indeed "acrosses followed by downs", but the acrosses and the downs are in the normal order (ie left-to-right from top-to-bottom).

[Ruthrobin]

This looked most daunting on downloading but was great fun - and what an astonishing challenge it must have been to compile it! I had to solve it all before getting round to working out what the 10 letters anaground to!

[midazolam]

Let me explain why printer devilry clues are the worst clue type ever thought of. After only getting 6 answers (which coincidentally happen to be the same in each grid) I know exactly what is going on and using quinapalus I know the 10 letter word, I still have issues. Not taking anything away from Pointer, who is a prolific setter in the Magpie and has created fabulous crosswords which has foxed me on several occasions, but printer devilry clues are just a waste of time. OK I might not be any good at them, but they have no affinity to any kind of cryptic clue. The answer has no relevance to the clue, it is a matter of finding where a word can be slotted in. Yes they might take a lot of thinking to make both readings work, but the rest of the clue can be anything. Midazolam has just taken over the Mr Grumpy title. Zabadak and daagg must have the knack a these. With only a fraction of the grid completed, this is a nice construction (as usual) but it is going to be a long slog over the next few days to complete this.

[dr b]

midazolam, I think I'm with you on this one. I have about half of the answers, but it's just not very interesting to stare at the clue and hope for a flash of insight.

daagg, I don't mean to be dim but I have no idea what you mean by "but the acrosses and the downs are in the normal order (ie left-to-right from top-to-bottom)".

[midazolam]

The first clue goes to the first row, the second clue goes to the next across (second row) etc. The sixth clue is the first down column , the seventh clue goes to the next down (second column).

[daagg]

midazolam, your description for the down clues is not quite right. The sixth clue is for the down answer which starts in the leftmost column of the highest row of any down answer. Dr b, just imagine they are in the order of normal crossword clues.

I'm going to defend PD clues against these barbarous attacks. OK, they are not "normal" cryptic clues, but there is still usually a good PDM when you realise the answer. I was stuck on the last one even though I knew the answer completely, and I still groaned when I worked it out.

As I (or possibly Schadenfreude, or was it Cowper) said before, "variety is the spice of life".

[BlackHugh]

I find these PD clues annoying as well. In many cases they are in no way unique. From my very incomplete state at the moment (8 clues done) I can fit several possible answers into both Grid 2 nos. 3 and 8.
btw - smalll bit of help requested.. does the answer to Grid 1 no. 7 actually feature in the BRB

[Ruthrobin]

Midazolam you're an old grump! Just imagine the work that went into compiling this one - and knowing you, once you put your mind to it, you'll have it polished off in about ten minutes!

[midazolam]

sorry daagg. Yes that makes sense as if e.g. the 6 letter answer in the second column was underneath a 3 letter word this would be clued lower than e.g. the third column if the 6 letter answer started at the top. As you say, in normal down clue order as per any crossword.

sorry, haven't got that far yet, just being dense. I think this is one of those that the more you have the quicker the fill.

[Jogler]

Our first of this type, thank you Pointer. It was certainly fun, and fitting the words in to make some sort of sense was amusing - but what are we going to accompany the cricket with tomorrow?! I think one of these a year would be quite fun to celebrate the variety of word playing - but possibly not more (bring on the numbers :),).

[Zabadak]

midazolam, I'm not too clear where you are on this: is it really going to take a few days to finish, or are you there already? For what its worth, if I have most of the letters in a word, I tend to use http://www.scrabblesolver.net/, as it allows for up to two wild card entries giving all possible n-letter solutions.

[Zabadak]

BlackHugh BRB? it certainly turns up in Chambers.

[midazolam]

No Zabadak I mean what I say and I have no shame in saying. I still only have 6 answers after four and a half hours of solving. As I said it is one of those that will speed up once the grid is filled in better, so I might get there before bed.

Ruthrobin, given our recent correspondence, I will take that in the jest we have been accustomed to! :)

[BlackHugh]

Zabadak -sorry by BRB I meant "Big Red Book" (i.e Chambers)