What Will You Give To Keep Living?

[goodlife]

Many would do anything to abandon any principle, just to stay alive.
(Job 2:4)

[jomifl]

Alas Hypo, only a few mortals have the gift of understanding the mind of god.

[jomifl]

Khandro, ideas have to stand on their merits...though some seem to need the assistance of a zimmer frame.

[goodlife]

DTC@ I do not C & P all the time. I notice you only pick on those comments where I have done so. This is because it is usually quicker and easier to do so because it is put better than I could do myself. If you do not like it, go and play elsewhere!!
Vulcan@ The goalposts are not moved! God's word is universal and JWs have not rewritten it. The language of today's world is not that of, say 20 years ago. New words are introduced and meanings in one language is not the same in another as I have discovered as I travel the world. The new revised version has not altered the meaning whatsoever from the original transcripts, just brought upto date.
When I stated that the religious leaders say "Do as I say, not as I do", this goes right back to the days of Jesus with the religious leaders of his day, and even today. You mention state of the art churches etc. Well, have you ever visited a Kingdom Hall? Certainly no state of the art there.

[goodlife]

Hypognosis@ //If he loves us so much and we are in his image, why are both he and we so incapable of basic communication with each other? //

Why do you think he gave us his word, the Bible?

//I hope this isn't code for "Adam and Eve made a boo-boo, so all of humanity is going to pay the price for that, for ever"? //

Simply put , Yes. But not forever. That is the point of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ. His ransom bought back the perfect life that Adam lost.

That is all I have time for now.

[Khandro]

goodlife; Europe is arguably the best place on earth to live, in its high standard of living is embodied, education - the best universities, health care which must be the finest in the world, and we have peace with our neighbours and food and water. All this has been produced by blood, sweat tears and toil by us and our forefathers (and mothers)

In the last couple of years, nearly one and a half million people have entered, all of whom. apart from a few Christians have a completely different mindset to the European tradition, and are all seeking a better life and to profit from what we have created.

What bothers me, is that if we were to follow the teachings of Jesus to the letter, wouldn't we welcome them to continue to enter in a never ending flow from Africa and Asia, until saturation point, when all we have would disappear. What do you think Christ would advise?

[RATTER15]

"That is the point of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ."

It wasnt much of a sacrifice, knowing he would come back to life in 3 days!!

Goodlife, you talk a load of poppycock!

[vulcan42]

goodlife, I haven't mentioned state of the art churches, but that's not important.
Are you saying these Greek scholars are wrong?
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

[Hypognosis]

@jomifl

//
Alas Hypo, only a few mortals have the gift of understanding the mind of god.
//

I know. Wretched gatekeepers. They have all the power. I guess that makes St. Peter a glorified club bouncer?

[Hypognosis]

@Khandro

Great post! Glad to have you back on top form.


@Goodlife

//If he loves us so much and we are in his image, why are both he and we so incapable of basic communication with each other? //

Why do you think he gave us his word, the Bible?
//

Again, are his words to be taken *literally* or *in context*? If the latter, in context of what?

In case you've not noticed, I see these two possibilities as mutually contradictory and would be gratified to see a resolution.

//I hope this isn't code for "Adam and Eve made a boo-boo, so all of humanity is going to pay the price for that, for ever"? //

Simply put , Yes. //

Punishing innocent people for other people's crimes? What a just and loving god he is (or was).

//
But not forever.
//

Oh. That makes it all better then. Of course, vengeance is his alone so we're not to feel angry about our collective, unjust, punishment. Nice!

//
That is the point of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
//

Ransom? It's not as if people were in a position to demand this be done. Nobody believed his claim to be the son of god until *after* his execution. Claims to be a deity's offspring are rare but known throughout history; no reason why 1st century Jews should not be totally familiar with that specific variant of mental health problem.

//
His ransom bought back the perfect life that Adam lost.
//

What? You said that earth was currently under the control of Satan, just a few posts ago. Make your mind up!

//
That is all I have time for now.
//

I'm not surprised. I find resolving contradictions sometimes results in physical pain, between the ears. Try to avoid straining yourself.

[jomifl]

Why did god create Satan?

[Hypognosis]

@anyone

Adam
Eve
Cain
Abel (deceased)

No other women. Or no named female characters, if you prefer.

Think about that. Take all the time you need.

[sandyRoe]

Can any of us know his mind?

Know then thyself, presume not God to scan;
The proper study of mankind is man.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //What do you think Christ would advise?//

He would reject them – and us – and Goodlife. He came only for the Jews.

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Matthew 15:24

[naomi24]

ps. The name 'Jehovah' has been added to the Jehovah's Witness bible multiple times and certain verses have been deleted altogether.

[Hypognosis]

@vulcan42

Goodlife got us mixed up. It was my comment, about grand headquarters.

I will repeat that for @goodlife's benefit: I said *headquarters*, not "meeting halls". It was in specific reference to Mormons, but only because that was what the BBC chose to film.

I have no idea what Jehova's Witnesses HQ looks like, nor even where it is located although that is only a quick google away. I lose my draft post it I switch tabs on this phone so I simply omitted any comment.

I went on, to decry Catholic/Protestant spending on architecture and trinkets instead of the poor which was convenient for goodlife to latch onto and say how plain JW congregation halls are (I've never seen one, myself).

In the interests of balance, there's no end of spending on building new Mosques. By contrast, the migrants look to be in decent clothes and well fed, so someone is looking after them, moneywise.

@naomi24

That's set out well in vulcan's fascinating link. The link at top left is labelled NEW and could raise a smile.

http://www.bible.ca/Jw-internet.htm#notbible

[Hypognosis]

* By contrast to Judeo-Christian failure to fix world poverty, the migrants…

[Khandro]

n. //He came only for the Jews.//

Not according to St Paul, see Karen Armstrong's book on him.

[Hypognosis]

@Khandro

What? Salvation was on offer to those despised (and pagan) Romans too? Their conquerors and oppressors?

I'll bet that went down well as early Christians went knocking on doors.

[mrblear]

I am sure you debaters are familiar with Bertrand Russell's 'celestial teapot' (if you're not it's worth a look). Every time a believer mentions their god just substitute 'teapot' and you'll see how their argument is flawed and the debate invalid.

[Khandro]

Or, everytime anyone mentions Bertrand Russell, substitute "teapot".
Seriously, if you understand what he was saying, it was about logic and falsifiability not the disproval of God. Russell, was a self-proclaimed agnostic who couldn't accept the Christian concept of God. Though his intimate friend and ally at Oxford, Wittgenstein, (arguably an even greater exponent of logic) did.