The Created Universe.

[Theland]

We agree, I presume, that the universe is not eternal, but had a beginning about 13.7 billion years ago.
That being the case, there are, in my opinion, only two possible causes for the created universe.
First, what I believe, it was created by God.
Secondly, what atheists believe, no God was involved, but it was created by completely natural processes.
If you support the latter view, what would you suggest were these natural creative processes, and how would they work?

[Theland]

Thanks Nailit. Glad you O.K.

[nailit]

Well I'm not burning in hell yet so that's something :)

[Theland]

Naomi - Has the hand of God ALWAYS to be accompanied by flashes of lightning, thunderous voices from the heavens, and angelic armies on parade in Jerusalem High Street?
And Jesus on a donkey? Really? You serious?

[naomi24]

Oh yes, Theland, I am absolutely serious. And there's you claiming to know all about biblical prophecy. Oops-a-daisy!

[THECORBYLOON]

An (apparently) all-powerful God creates literally trillions of stars and planets in an ever-expanding universe and for some reason chooses to put life on only one planet?

As the universe is thought to be about 13.8 thousand million years old, why did God wait for 99.95% of that time before creating humans?

[Theland]

Don't be silly Naomi.
Its significance is not central to the message of the New Testament. Well to you it is I guess.
Now you have raised it, it is easy enough to google it for the full prophetic fulfilment.
But, do Christian evangelists begin their testimony by going into the donkey story?
Why do you flail around on the periphery of the message to score cheap points? After all, I do realise that your primary concern is not truth, but to make Naomi look good with these very same cheap points.

[Theland]

Corbyloon - Amazing isn't it?
Maybe God is not as clever as you.
I am sure you would not have hung around for so long.
I'll take it up with Him next time He invites me around.

[THECORBYLOON]

Seriously though THELAND, if humans were created by a God, why wait so long and why all the uninhabited planets?

[vulcan42]

" I'll take it up with Him next time He invites me around."
This negates anything sensible you may have said on this thread.

[Theland]

I am serious. What will satisfy you? The heavens declare the glory of God, says the bible. Well? Are they glorious?
I believe God wants us to live in the here and now and turn to Him.
Nothing else matters. Not the time since the beginning or the number of galaxies.
I am not a cosmologist, just a Christian with a simple faith.

[vulcan42]

The number of galaxies doesn't matter? I'm sure your god won't be happy with that statement.

[Theland]

Here we go again! Phew!
Right! Did Jesus go around preaching on the number of galaxies? Oh He did? I'd better start counting them then, in case Charlie down the Dog and Duck decides to become a Christian, and demands cosmological answers to his questions.

[THECORBYLOON]

Nothing apart from earth matters? Did God make a mistake then, spending all that time only for those creations to be worthless?

[Theland]

Who knows the mind of God? Do you?
Do you set yourself up as an arbiter of God and find Him wanting?

[Theland]

Jim360 - Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to look up and post the dark matter links.
I have read them to the best of my ability, and agree that they are entirely convincing. Measurements taken TODAY confirm the existence of dark energy and dark matter.
I have no problem believing experimental scientists and mathematicians, especially with my inferior intellect.
But you have presented evidence, and that is only evidence for something that is a PART of the existing created universe. Maybe we will never understand the complete picture of how the universe works, but however it works, it is all just part of the great created cosmic machine, and sheds no light on events causing the Big Bang.
To understand that, we have to fall back on philosophy, theology, revealed wisdom and logic.
Logic as in, "Nothing can come from nothing", as well as the possible sources of information, on which all organic matter depends.
Anyway, a lot for my feeble brain to take in, but I try.
Thanks again for engaging with me so fruitfully.

[THECORBYLOON]

A great big universe when only one planet is needed seems like the creation of a not very LEAN God to me.

[Theland]

Well Corby - Like the rest of us you have a choice. Believe in God or don't.
Don't think there is safety in numbers. At the moment your mocking tones are shared by millions. You are not alone. But when your number is up, you are COMPLETELY alone, and then you will come face to face with God.
You don't believe in Him? Will your unbelief make Him go away?
You, like many others are playing a dangerous game.
God loves,you and will give you whatever you want.
If you want Him, He,will give Himself to you, and that is beyond our imagination.
If you just want yourself, He will do that for you too.
God will turn away,from you and leave you completely alone, cut off from God, and no other mockers to keep you company.
Think carefully.

[THECORBYLOON]

If I want God to do something impossible (of my choosing) to prove His existence to me, will He do that?

[Theland]

I don't know the mind of God completely, but He loves you. Try praying to Him and ask Him for peace.
Not a new car.

[mibn2cweus]

//Try praying to Him and ask Him for peace.//

I can see it all now, THECORBYLOON stepping up to accept the Nobel Peace Prize.