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The Created Universe.
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We agree, I presume, that the universe is not eternal, but had a beginning about 13.7 billion years ago.
That being the case, there are, in my opinion, only two possible causes for the created universe.
First, what I believe, it was created by God.
Secondly, what atheists believe, no God was involved, but it was created by completely natural processes.
If you support the latter view, what would you suggest were these natural creative processes, and how would they work?
That being the case, there are, in my opinion, only two possible causes for the created universe.
First, what I believe, it was created by God.
Secondly, what atheists believe, no God was involved, but it was created by completely natural processes.
If you support the latter view, what would you suggest were these natural creative processes, and how would they work?
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Theland, //Why do you flail around on the periphery of the message to score cheap points? After all, I do realise that your primary concern is not truth, but to make Naomi look good with these very same cheap points.//
You’re the one doing the flailing, Theland. My intention is never to score points but if I have, your inability to offer a rational rebuttal to anything I’ve said is responsible.
You’re the one doing the flailing, Theland. My intention is never to score points but if I have, your inability to offer a rational rebuttal to anything I’ve said is responsible.
Theland, in your reply to Corbyloon @ 1:25 you say
//Like the rest of us you have a choice. Believe in God or don't.//
Beliefs are not choices. Our beliefs are based on the evidence available to us at any one time. If I gave you a red ball and told you that its blue, would you have a 'choice' to believe thats its blue? You could pretend that its blue but you could never really believe that its blue. Like you I used to believe that the Bible was true but after been presented with , and studying, the evidence my beliefs changed. That was not a choice, it was a process. I could no longer believe that the Bible was the word of God than I could believe that a red ball is blue.
//God will turn away,from you and leave you completely alone, cut off from God, and no other mockers to keep you company//
Then how would you feel if you died and woke up completely alone, cut of from God and no other christians to keep you company? You ask why and a voice replies (in Arabic) that you had 'chosen' the wrong religion?
When you have to resort to threatening people with eternal damnation if they dont believe the same as you, then it just goes to show how weak you evidence is.
//Like the rest of us you have a choice. Believe in God or don't.//
Beliefs are not choices. Our beliefs are based on the evidence available to us at any one time. If I gave you a red ball and told you that its blue, would you have a 'choice' to believe thats its blue? You could pretend that its blue but you could never really believe that its blue. Like you I used to believe that the Bible was true but after been presented with , and studying, the evidence my beliefs changed. That was not a choice, it was a process. I could no longer believe that the Bible was the word of God than I could believe that a red ball is blue.
//God will turn away,from you and leave you completely alone, cut off from God, and no other mockers to keep you company//
Then how would you feel if you died and woke up completely alone, cut of from God and no other christians to keep you company? You ask why and a voice replies (in Arabic) that you had 'chosen' the wrong religion?
When you have to resort to threatening people with eternal damnation if they dont believe the same as you, then it just goes to show how weak you evidence is.
"God loves,you and will give you whatever you want."
"Try praying to Him and ask Him for peace.
Not a new car"
God will give me whatever I want as long as it's on your list of requests?
There have been many wars/disputes waged in the name of religion including Christianity. Why should there be a need to pray for peace in the first instance? Does it not show God has lost control?
Why should I pray for peace when God appears not to have paid any heed to the millions of prayers for for peace made by those who believe in God?
Does a prayer made by a non-believer have more impact on God than one from a believer? Is that how it works?
"Try praying to Him and ask Him for peace.
Not a new car"
God will give me whatever I want as long as it's on your list of requests?
There have been many wars/disputes waged in the name of religion including Christianity. Why should there be a need to pray for peace in the first instance? Does it not show God has lost control?
Why should I pray for peace when God appears not to have paid any heed to the millions of prayers for for peace made by those who believe in God?
Does a prayer made by a non-believer have more impact on God than one from a believer? Is that how it works?
Theland - it's abundantly clear to anyone who reads any of your posts that you have a deep faith in God, and an equally deep curiosity about how Man thinks about God.
What it all boils down to is something as simple as this -
You believe in God.
I don't believe in God.
Neither of us can convince the other that our view is right, neither of us have undeniable evidence to support our view.
The only difference is, you fret on a daily basis because people like me don't see what you believe you see.
I on the other hand don't give it a moment's thought, much less spend my valuable time wading through multiple arguments for and against, which come to the same conclusion every time.
I would consider stepping away from your computer and getting some fresh air - provided by God or not, it's still there to enjoy.
What it all boils down to is something as simple as this -
You believe in God.
I don't believe in God.
Neither of us can convince the other that our view is right, neither of us have undeniable evidence to support our view.
The only difference is, you fret on a daily basis because people like me don't see what you believe you see.
I on the other hand don't give it a moment's thought, much less spend my valuable time wading through multiple arguments for and against, which come to the same conclusion every time.
I would consider stepping away from your computer and getting some fresh air - provided by God or not, it's still there to enjoy.
First of all, many thanks for reading the links, and for taking them seriously enough to change your opinion. It's heartening to see that you did try to evaluate something that disagreed with you.
I was surprised, though, to see you go from dogmatic rejection of the existence of Dark Matter earlier, to enthusiastic acceptance barely half an hour later. I hope it doesn't ruin the sentiments above to say that it gives me cause to wonder how seriously you've done research on anything else you hold such strong opinions about.
I do agree with you, though, that the existence or non-existence of Dark Matter doesn't answer the questions of the origin of the Universe.
I was surprised, though, to see you go from dogmatic rejection of the existence of Dark Matter earlier, to enthusiastic acceptance barely half an hour later. I hope it doesn't ruin the sentiments above to say that it gives me cause to wonder how seriously you've done research on anything else you hold such strong opinions about.
I do agree with you, though, that the existence or non-existence of Dark Matter doesn't answer the questions of the origin of the Universe.
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