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The Created Universe.

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Theland | 00:57 Wed 02nd May 2018 | Religion & Spirituality
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We agree, I presume, that the universe is not eternal, but had a beginning about 13.7 billion years ago.
That being the case, there are, in my opinion, only two possible causes for the created universe.
First, what I believe, it was created by God.
Secondly, what atheists believe, no God was involved, but it was created by completely natural processes.
If you support the latter view, what would you suggest were these natural creative processes, and how would they work?
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Theland, //Why do you flail around on the periphery of the message to score cheap points? After all, I do realise that your primary concern is not truth, but to make Naomi look good with these very same cheap points.//

You’re the one doing the flailing, Theland. My intention is never to score points but if I have, your inability to offer a rational rebuttal to anything I’ve said is responsible.
Theland, in your reply to Corbyloon @ 1:25 you say
//Like the rest of us you have a choice. Believe in God or don't.//
Beliefs are not choices. Our beliefs are based on the evidence available to us at any one time. If I gave you a red ball and told you that its blue, would you have a 'choice' to believe thats its blue? You could pretend that its blue but you could never really believe that its blue. Like you I used to believe that the Bible was true but after been presented with , and studying, the evidence my beliefs changed. That was not a choice, it was a process. I could no longer believe that the Bible was the word of God than I could believe that a red ball is blue.

//God will turn away,from you and leave you completely alone, cut off from God, and no other mockers to keep you company//
Then how would you feel if you died and woke up completely alone, cut of from God and no other christians to keep you company? You ask why and a voice replies (in Arabic) that you had 'chosen' the wrong religion?

When you have to resort to threatening people with eternal damnation if they dont believe the same as you, then it just goes to show how weak you evidence is.

"God loves,you and will give you whatever you want."

"Try praying to Him and ask Him for peace. 
Not a new car"

God will give me whatever I want as long as it's on your list of requests?

There have been many wars/disputes waged in the name of religion including Christianity. Why should there be a need to pray for peace in the first instance? Does it not show God has lost control?

Why should I pray for peace when God appears not to have paid any heed to the millions of prayers for for peace made by those who believe in God?

Does a prayer made by a non-believer have more impact on God than one from a believer? Is that how it works?
Theland - it's abundantly clear to anyone who reads any of your posts that you have a deep faith in God, and an equally deep curiosity about how Man thinks about God.

What it all boils down to is something as simple as this -

You believe in God.

I don't believe in God.

Neither of us can convince the other that our view is right, neither of us have undeniable evidence to support our view.

The only difference is, you fret on a daily basis because people like me don't see what you believe you see.

I on the other hand don't give it a moment's thought, much less spend my valuable time wading through multiple arguments for and against, which come to the same conclusion every time.

I would consider stepping away from your computer and getting some fresh air - provided by God or not, it's still there to enjoy.
‘I on the other hand don't give it a moment's thought’

Erm.........
Zacs - Maybe I should clarify that observation - I don't give it a moment's thought when I am not posting on here.

I am off for a bath now, and in the time it takes to put the plug in, I will have forgotten all about God until the next time!
First of all, many thanks for reading the links, and for taking them seriously enough to change your opinion. It's heartening to see that you did try to evaluate something that disagreed with you.

I was surprised, though, to see you go from dogmatic rejection of the existence of Dark Matter earlier, to enthusiastic acceptance barely half an hour later. I hope it doesn't ruin the sentiments above to say that it gives me cause to wonder how seriously you've done research on anything else you hold such strong opinions about.

I do agree with you, though, that the existence or non-existence of Dark Matter doesn't answer the questions of the origin of the Universe.
Well, at least until you catch yourself in the mirror moving in mysterious ways.
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Jim- I had never seen evidence for it. The mathematics suggest some grind of force. For arguments call it dark energy and matter.
In the great scheme of things, it sheds no light on the uncaused cause of our universe as whatever it is, it remains a part of the created universe.
But thank you again.
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Corbyloon - God can give you peace whatever your circumstances. The ability to go on. Call it what you will.
Comfort in the face of adversity.
//Well, at least until you catch yourself in the mirror moving in mysterious ways.//

Looks like someone neglected to rinse the tub out again after making the last batch.
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Do you think I am trying to save your souls, or are you trying to save my life?
Or is this all just a diversion from what's on the telly?
Any chance you could have a look at my last post Theland (on this page) and explain how belief is a choice?
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Yes of course.
If your curiosity is aroused, then it is up to you to do what Jesus said.
Search with all your heart, with all your strength, and the promise is you will find Him.
Err, was that ^^ your answer as to how belief is a choice?
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You choose to search
Really is pointless asking you anything, you just evade the questions.

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Then read your New Testament.
THELAND, which one of the many Christian sects do you adhere to?
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