News7 mins ago
End Tkmes Prophecies.
246 Answers
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An hour long video, but even atheists might feel it interesting and entertaining, and Km sure fellow Christians certainly will.
Just watching the news confirms it all for me.
An hour long video, but even atheists might feel it interesting and entertaining, and Km sure fellow Christians certainly will.
Just watching the news confirms it all for me.
Answers
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Theland, thank you for taking the time to explain it in your own words. I do appreciate that x I am honestly fairly sure that I could make a prophecy of any kind... and if I waited long enough, someone could interpret it to be true. So they don't convince me at all, as you have to "want" them to be true, to see it that way. But- thank you.
//How did it fail? Please tell me//
I'll have a go then...
(Ezekiel ch37)
//15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand//
Here is a refrernce to the *TRIBES* of Israel coming together, yet no such tribes exist in modern Israel (not surprising since 10 of them have been *lost*)
It has only been the Jews (of the tribe of Judah) that has returned to Israel despite Daniel having God say that Ephraim and the other tribes would become *one stick*...a failed prophecy!
Another point is that modern Israel does not have all the land that was supposedly part of the kingdom of Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon,therefore the nation has not been fully restored.
//22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all//
//24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them//
Israel doesn't have a king, much less king David (or one of his descendents), it has a president. Moreover Israel is a secular state, not a theocracy, that doesn't observe God's statutes. Hard to reconcile with the 2 verses above.
//27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.//
As above
//28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore//
Im not aware of any heathen that knows this?
As with any prophecy (biblical or otherwise) its a case of cherry picking the bits that fit while ignoring the rest.
If the Bible had predicted airplanes, TV, the internet or the germ theory of disease then I might still have remained a convinced Christian. But it doesn't!
Now, for the last time Theland, Im not been critical. Im been honest. I was once a believer as you are now. I have Christian friends, I work with Christian believers and we all get along great. BUT if anyone starts to discuss their beliefs with me, they shouldn't be surprised if I disagree and back my disagreements up with reasons why. (such as pointing out the failed prophecies in Ezekiel chapter 37...)
:-)
I'll have a go then...
(Ezekiel ch37)
//15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand//
Here is a refrernce to the *TRIBES* of Israel coming together, yet no such tribes exist in modern Israel (not surprising since 10 of them have been *lost*)
It has only been the Jews (of the tribe of Judah) that has returned to Israel despite Daniel having God say that Ephraim and the other tribes would become *one stick*...a failed prophecy!
Another point is that modern Israel does not have all the land that was supposedly part of the kingdom of Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon,therefore the nation has not been fully restored.
//22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all//
//24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them//
Israel doesn't have a king, much less king David (or one of his descendents), it has a president. Moreover Israel is a secular state, not a theocracy, that doesn't observe God's statutes. Hard to reconcile with the 2 verses above.
//27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.//
As above
//28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore//
Im not aware of any heathen that knows this?
As with any prophecy (biblical or otherwise) its a case of cherry picking the bits that fit while ignoring the rest.
If the Bible had predicted airplanes, TV, the internet or the germ theory of disease then I might still have remained a convinced Christian. But it doesn't!
Now, for the last time Theland, Im not been critical. Im been honest. I was once a believer as you are now. I have Christian friends, I work with Christian believers and we all get along great. BUT if anyone starts to discuss their beliefs with me, they shouldn't be surprised if I disagree and back my disagreements up with reasons why. (such as pointing out the failed prophecies in Ezekiel chapter 37...)
:-)
Nailit, Naomi, Pixie, Andy, And all the other ABers who have made my life hell over the last 12 months, just want to wish you all a very happy New Year, and give you my best wishes and hope for all of you, health, and peace.
And before I start blubbering into my tea, normal service will be resumed after midnight.
Have a happy time :-)
And before I start blubbering into my tea, normal service will be resumed after midnight.
Have a happy time :-)
//Before we get into the detail, just look at the broad picture for starters.
Do the prophecies and the history match?//
No. They don't.
What prophecies are we discussing here?
Ezekiel 37 which I have just shown you is bogus or some other prophecy?
//Just address those points and then we can move on//
Don't tell me to address points on which you havnt defined.
Are you talking about Ezekiel 37? If you are then I have just shown you that its a non existent prophecy. If it involves another prophecy then we can talk.
If its a non existent prophecy
(Expulsion. Persecution. Scattering. Regathering)
Then what is there to discuss?
Is it a prophecy or not?
Do the prophecies and the history match?//
No. They don't.
What prophecies are we discussing here?
Ezekiel 37 which I have just shown you is bogus or some other prophecy?
//Just address those points and then we can move on//
Don't tell me to address points on which you havnt defined.
Are you talking about Ezekiel 37? If you are then I have just shown you that its a non existent prophecy. If it involves another prophecy then we can talk.
If its a non existent prophecy
(Expulsion. Persecution. Scattering. Regathering)
Then what is there to discuss?
Is it a prophecy or not?
Expulsion, Scattering, Persecution, Regsthering, they all happened. Don't you agree?
Anyway my faith cannot be shaken.
So I am perplexed why you would try.
Let's turn things around.
What exactly do you believe In? Anything?
Science? Abiogenesis? Evolution? Something from nothing?
P,ease feel free to express your preferences rather than attack mine.
Anyway my faith cannot be shaken.
So I am perplexed why you would try.
Let's turn things around.
What exactly do you believe In? Anything?
Science? Abiogenesis? Evolution? Something from nothing?
P,ease feel free to express your preferences rather than attack mine.
//Expulsion, Scattering, Persecution, Regsthering, they all happened. Don't you agree?//
Well its arguable at best, but supposing that I do agree, So what?
A group of people (or at best a portion of a group of people, jews...not Israelites btw) fulfilled a self fulfilling prophecy) Nothing miraculous there.
//Anyway my faith cannot be shaken//
Of course it cant. No amount of reason can shake a faith.
Had JWs, Mormons etc say exactly the same thing to me.
//So I am perplexed why you would try//
Me too mate, me too.
//Let's turn things around//
Yes lets, because that would then take the heat of you wouldn't it?
You wouldn't then have to explain Ezekiel 37 and the obviously failed prophecies.
//What exactly do you believe In? Anything?
Science? Abiogenesis? Evolution? Something from nothing?//
Ive always been open about the fact that I do not reject the Bible on scientific grounds. I know little about evolution, my understanding of science is high school grade, something from nothing is something that I question myself. And why are you turning a question about prophecy into a science debate unless you are trying to divert the topic at hand?
That doesn't stop me from questioning ridiculous assertions about so called prophecy....one which you have failed to answer.
Ezekiel is a failed prophecy which ever way you look at it.
And one that you have totally glossed over here by trying to divert the thread. (As usual)
//P,ease feel free to express your preferences rather than attack mine//
Don't have any *preferences* (whatever that means) and not attacking yours...just asking for a coherent rebuttal/reply re: Ezekiel 37?
Well its arguable at best, but supposing that I do agree, So what?
A group of people (or at best a portion of a group of people, jews...not Israelites btw) fulfilled a self fulfilling prophecy) Nothing miraculous there.
//Anyway my faith cannot be shaken//
Of course it cant. No amount of reason can shake a faith.
Had JWs, Mormons etc say exactly the same thing to me.
//So I am perplexed why you would try//
Me too mate, me too.
//Let's turn things around//
Yes lets, because that would then take the heat of you wouldn't it?
You wouldn't then have to explain Ezekiel 37 and the obviously failed prophecies.
//What exactly do you believe In? Anything?
Science? Abiogenesis? Evolution? Something from nothing?//
Ive always been open about the fact that I do not reject the Bible on scientific grounds. I know little about evolution, my understanding of science is high school grade, something from nothing is something that I question myself. And why are you turning a question about prophecy into a science debate unless you are trying to divert the topic at hand?
That doesn't stop me from questioning ridiculous assertions about so called prophecy....one which you have failed to answer.
Ezekiel is a failed prophecy which ever way you look at it.
And one that you have totally glossed over here by trying to divert the thread. (As usual)
//P,ease feel free to express your preferences rather than attack mine//
Don't have any *preferences* (whatever that means) and not attacking yours...just asking for a coherent rebuttal/reply re: Ezekiel 37?
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