I Do Not Believe The Myth That Adam And Eve Were The 1St Humans.

[SparklyKid]

Same goes for this bloke referred to as jesus. Is there any reliable proof of his existence apart from stories in dubious books ?

[Theland]

I have. And that's the inevitable conclusion supported by the facts.

[romearcega]

It's just a made-up story.

[SparklyKid]

There are no facts in the bible, just silly stories.

[Theland]

We are going around in circles here.

[naomi24]

^Nothing new there - probably because you refuse to examine 'the facts'.

[Theland]

You like to wind me up, yes?
The only facts I consider are scriptures, not my own opinions.
These are borne out by history.
You want to reject it, up to you.
That is my stance.

[SparklyKid]

The only facts I consider are scriptures

scriptures are not facts.

[eve1974]

@sparklykid. Fair play ... they are not facts to you. Tho to others (incl myself) they are. No diff I guess to the “flat earthers” who insist what they believe is right compared to what the rest of the world think.

[naomi24]

Theland, //The only facts I consider are scriptures, not my own opinions. //

The scriptures don’t reflect facts.

//These are borne out by history.//

No they’re not.

Eve, //No diff I guess to the “flat earthers” who insist what they believe is right compared to what the rest of the world think.//

Not exactly a convincing argument.

[eve1974]

Ah I’m not around to convince anyone. I’m rubbish at debates ..,.about anything! I prefer to let others make up their own minds. I admit that whole very interested in what others believe ive got no inclination to persuade them to my way because figure people will believe in whatever they decide for themselves

[eve1974]

**while
Not whole

[goodlife]

Naomi //Josephus' reference to Jesus is disputed and can only have been hearsay at the best//

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically.
Jesus is also revered outside of Christianity. Islam considers Jesus to be one of the important prophets.
Early non-Christian sources in regard to the existence of Jesus also include the works of the Roman historian Tacitus. With regard to Josephus, few have doubted the genuineness of Josephus' reference to Jesus in book 20 of the Antiquities of the Jews, and it is disputed only by a small number of scholars. Tacitus referred to Christ and his execution by Pilate and it is generally considered that Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus is both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source
Non-Christian sources are valuable in two ways. First, they show that even neutral or hostile parties never show any doubt that Jesus actually existed. Second, they present a rough picture of Jesus that is compatible with that found in the Christian sources: that Jesus was a teacher, had a reputation as a miracle worker, had brothers James, and Jude and that he died a violent death.

[naomi24]

Eve, It seems very odd to compare your religious belief to the beliefs of 'flat-earthers'. You know the earth isn't flat so are you saying you know your religious belief is askew too?

[goodlife]

SparklyKid//There are no facts in the bible, just silly stories.//
have you actually read the Bible?
How do you know they are not facts?
History and archaeology bears out what the Bible says. You ever been to the British Museum? There you will see artifacts that prove the Bible. For example, the Nabonidus cylinders.

[jackthehat]

I thought that goodlifes last was unusally coherent.....

It is an edited, cobbled together and much truncated cut and paste of the Wikipedia page on Jesus.

It certainly comes to something when the fervently religious have to resort to Wikipedia to bolster their arguments....

As I have said before, *you* may have your religious truths, please just don't present them as facts.

[jackthehat]

I'd be very interested to discover how you believe that the Nabondius cyliders 'prove' the Bible.

[naomi24]

Jackthehat, par for the course from Goodlife.

Goodlife, I’m aware of all of that - not that I believe all of that. It is all hearsay. That said, I do think Jesus, the man, existed but the difference between the faithful and people like me is that I ask ‘Why?’ - something the believer never does, preferring instead to cling to anything he thinks might be useful in supporting his fervent hopes - as you do.

Does it never occur to you to ask why no one took the trouble to record the most incredible event in the history of the world? Jesus was surrounded by an assortment of people, some of them wealthy and educated, and quite capable of putting pen to paper, so to speak, so why?

By the way, you shouldn’t set too much store by Islam’s accounts as evidence of Jesus’ existence. Mohammed was a canny old merchant who put Judaic, Christian, and Greek writings to good use - apart from when he copied from the Greeks some of the allegedly astonishing science the Koran contains unaware that what he was copying was inaccurate. He was a plagiarist and therefore in the search for the real Jesus his accounts may be dismissed.