Quizzes & Puzzles2 mins ago
A Bravado Racist Chant Maybe, But A Real Act Of Racism?
272 Answers
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Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.
Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?
As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.
Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.
Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.
I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.
Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.
Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?
As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.
Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.
Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.
I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.
Answers
If one of this gang had punched someone and put them in hospital would had there been as much uproar? No, I dont think their would. Name calling is now a more serious offence than any violent attack it seems.
16:07 Thu 19th Feb 2015
sp1814 - "You've said that you were playing Devil's Advocate, but It assume you've had a chance to look at the video - what is your take on the actions of this mob?"
An interesting point SP.
AOG has defined himself as 'Devil's Advocate' in this debate - and then proceeded to deviate from that position and take personally the arguments made in the debate he has created as DA.
Surely as DA, AOG should be impartial to the argument, but simply make his contrary points to stimulate the debate, which is now he claimed to have started. It took a variety of responses before he eventually claimed that DA was his original position.
AOG then deviated from his DA stance and became a debater in the thread - and took serious exception to the disagreements with his views, taking the personally, and insulting more than one poster in the process.
So, if he is willing to confirm that he is speaking for himself, and not as the DA which he seems to have abandoned during the course of the debate, I would be very interested to hear him register his personal view - as everyone else on the thread has done.
Over to you AOG ...
An interesting point SP.
AOG has defined himself as 'Devil's Advocate' in this debate - and then proceeded to deviate from that position and take personally the arguments made in the debate he has created as DA.
Surely as DA, AOG should be impartial to the argument, but simply make his contrary points to stimulate the debate, which is now he claimed to have started. It took a variety of responses before he eventually claimed that DA was his original position.
AOG then deviated from his DA stance and became a debater in the thread - and took serious exception to the disagreements with his views, taking the personally, and insulting more than one poster in the process.
So, if he is willing to confirm that he is speaking for himself, and not as the DA which he seems to have abandoned during the course of the debate, I would be very interested to hear him register his personal view - as everyone else on the thread has done.
Over to you AOG ...
Fitzer
/// the platforms at Richelieu-Drouot only serve one line per platform so he wasn't likely to be waiting for a different train. ///
Then why was it that only the black guy wanted to board that train, as you can see from the video there were many peoples standing at the back of the platform, why wasn't they also trying to board the train?
/// the platforms at Richelieu-Drouot only serve one line per platform so he wasn't likely to be waiting for a different train. ///
Then why was it that only the black guy wanted to board that train, as you can see from the video there were many peoples standing at the back of the platform, why wasn't they also trying to board the train?
AOG - "/// the platforms at Richelieu-Drouot only serve one line per platform so he wasn't likely to be waiting for a different train. ///
Then why was it that only the black guy wanted to board that train, as you can see from the video there were many peoples standing at the back of the platform, why wasn't they also trying to board the train?"
You can't play DA and injured waif - make your mind up and let us know.
Then why was it that only the black guy wanted to board that train, as you can see from the video there were many peoples standing at the back of the platform, why wasn't they also trying to board the train?"
You can't play DA and injured waif - make your mind up and let us know.
Looking at the film, and what happened, it appears that the commuter got onto his usual train without assessing the situation, i.e. that it was full of baying football fans.
Having tried to get on, he was prevented from doing so.
In that situation, he would not have automatically deduced that he was being victimised by racists, he would probably have thought that there was some sort of mistake in his access being denied.
Not unreasonably, since he probably boards this train every day, he again tried to get on, and was then left in no doubt what was happening, because he was pushed violently off the train, by a youth who then squared up to him.
Had he been AOG's perception of him, he would have started swinging, but being a commuter, and not a hooligan, he took his surprise and retreated.
Having tried to get on, he was prevented from doing so.
In that situation, he would not have automatically deduced that he was being victimised by racists, he would probably have thought that there was some sort of mistake in his access being denied.
Not unreasonably, since he probably boards this train every day, he again tried to get on, and was then left in no doubt what was happening, because he was pushed violently off the train, by a youth who then squared up to him.
Had he been AOG's perception of him, he would have started swinging, but being a commuter, and not a hooligan, he took his surprise and retreated.
Chelsea takes some action, at last \\\\\;;;;
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Two brothers, who have been suspended, would seem to have UKIP connections as well !
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Two brothers, who have been suspended, would seem to have UKIP connections as well !
mikey - "The amount of covert support shown on here, for the racists Chelsea fans is amazing. Apparently its now the black mans fault for trying to some so outrageous as board a train ! You couldn't make it up !"
It's probable that some of the more seriously sarcastic responses are getting taken seriously - I for one have fallen into that trap on this thread.
From my viewpoint, the only person trying to put an alternative viewpoint - and that's being more generous than it deserves - is AOG, and he has responded by posting accusations of bullying!
It's probable that some of the more seriously sarcastic responses are getting taken seriously - I for one have fallen into that trap on this thread.
From my viewpoint, the only person trying to put an alternative viewpoint - and that's being more generous than it deserves - is AOG, and he has responded by posting accusations of bullying!
andy-hughes
/// The difference is, they are constrained in different ways from simply stating their view - Mr Cameron has to be careful not to predjudice any potential legal action, and Chelsea FC are in a similar position. ///
Then why am I any different from them, as yet they have no definite proof of what actually took place, neither have I, but you and others are perfectly willing to take in the hype from what you are being told and the evidence from a rather dodgy video, were any of you there to witness what actually went off?
Of course you are perfectly free to do so, since you will not be libel to any legal challenges, but please allow myself to have a mind of my own, without all the false accusations, criticisms and total sarcasm that has been shown towards me so far.
/// So trying to add their careful legal language in as seeing things from your viewpoint simply adds to the ongoing fruitlessness of your position - even in the face of almost total disagreement. ///
I am not in the least bothered about total disagreement towards me, I will not alter my questions over this case, I also will not tolerate aggression towards me in your vain attempts to make me change my views and thus make me follow to the flock.
By the way I notice that you did not acknowledge my apology for sinking down to the level of others when it came to insults.
*** Unfortunately at times I did need to lower myself to the same level of some once again, for this I do apologise for. ***
/// The difference is, they are constrained in different ways from simply stating their view - Mr Cameron has to be careful not to predjudice any potential legal action, and Chelsea FC are in a similar position. ///
Then why am I any different from them, as yet they have no definite proof of what actually took place, neither have I, but you and others are perfectly willing to take in the hype from what you are being told and the evidence from a rather dodgy video, were any of you there to witness what actually went off?
Of course you are perfectly free to do so, since you will not be libel to any legal challenges, but please allow myself to have a mind of my own, without all the false accusations, criticisms and total sarcasm that has been shown towards me so far.
/// So trying to add their careful legal language in as seeing things from your viewpoint simply adds to the ongoing fruitlessness of your position - even in the face of almost total disagreement. ///
I am not in the least bothered about total disagreement towards me, I will not alter my questions over this case, I also will not tolerate aggression towards me in your vain attempts to make me change my views and thus make me follow to the flock.
By the way I notice that you did not acknowledge my apology for sinking down to the level of others when it came to insults.
*** Unfortunately at times I did need to lower myself to the same level of some once again, for this I do apologise for. ***
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