muslims

[The Sherman]

Right here goes...... I honestly don't want to start a big debate but for all the muslims out here can someone eplain what your religion is all about?
From what i have seen so far it is very oppressive very negative and also very dogmatic in the way you live your life.

anyone wanna try and change my media influenced views on muslim culture?

and please no-one start raving on about how bad all muslims are- they cant all be bad so i just want someone to explain to me on an unhostile thread what they're all about.

[keyplus90]

I am sure it has happened so many time in these countries as well, that a woman had a one night stand while drunk and then in the morning accused the person for raping her.

[Quinlad]

It's not as if he's a spokesman for Muslims. It may just be a personality clash?

Reminds me of the caption used on Brasseye during a news report on race. Underneath the guy's name, it said 'Speaking on behalf of every single black person in Britain.'

[figure]

Naomi - you're one smart cookie!!! You sure know how to hold your end. I don't think I've ever disagreed with you. xx

[Quinlad]

She certainly is.

[keyplus90]

What I am saying that who gives people right to talk about another Religion when your talk is not going to change any thing, Neither you nor ME can change what Quran Says, So why not leave and talk about social Issues. Again and Again people are trying to mis-interpret Quran and Islam here, For Goodness sake either get thorough knowledge or leave it as it is. Otherwise There are So many highly educated people who are Muslims, Christians, Athiests, Hindus and so on. If they are still believeing in something, they must have agood reason for that. Why can we not leave it and not try to change their mind. YES I have always RESPONDED like this, I never start these things.

[monkeyeyes]

Please do not insist on using parallels of 'Christian' behaviour as some sort of justification for Muslim behaviour. I think that I am correct in saying that most of the people responding to this thread would not identify themselves as 'Christian'.
They are sensible enough to see that all of the main religions ought to hang their heads in shame at the things carried out in their name.

It appears to our eyes that women in Muslim society have to bear the burden caused by the inablity of the men to control themselves. And than rather than take the trouble to educate these men it is far simpler to put the onus on the women............

We are also aware that many young men are radicalised by the teachings of 'untrained' mullahs who are happy to cherry-pick and twist those parts of the Koran that suit their view.

I'm afraid that I don't have Waldo's knowledge of the Koran but know that where there are contradictory passages the emphasis is placed, by these 'teachers' on the negative part.

[figure]

Keyplus - referring to your last post, I believe it's more of a cultural thing than religious.

[Quinlad]

monkeyeyes,

What the Christian parallel does is show up how ludicrous it is to observe extremist Christian behaviour and apply to everyone who lives in a Christian society.

And like or it not (and I don't), we're viewed as a Christian society.

We view Muslims as a homogenous society when in reality one of them might have no more or less in comon with another than you or I do with a conservative religious Texan.

The Koran isn't followed slavishly by a bunch of brainwashed robots. Sorry.

[keyplus90]

Naomi - I do not think people need your views or even mine to make their mind up. So come out of your dream land.

[monkeyeyes]

Sorry. I think you'll find that the 'trouble-makers' do actually slavishly follow the teachings they receive.

I'm sure that the true nature of Islam is one of equality, tolerance and peace, it's just horribly evident that the practice doesn't match !

[keyplus90]

Monkeyeyes- I am with you on that, You can only go with the teachings if you have the fear, or respect about the consequences. A student will only follow teacher�s instructions if he or she knows that they would not pass the examination if they don't. Of course before that you have to believe in the Teacher and Coming of the exam. No one has seen tomorrow but you do believe in it only because you have seen yesterday, that is called Faith. Few people have it, few do not. One who do not then they do not act upon teachings. Simple, because you can not see the exam until you are sitting in it. If you never believed in that, then once you are sitting there, It is too late.

[WaldoMcFroog]

One does not have faith that tomorrow will come; one believes it on the basis of extensive evidence.

People who believe in god(s) have to have faith precisely because there is no evidence that their beliefs are true.

Implying the two are equivalent is nonsensical.

[keyplus90]

You do not have to see the things to believe in them. Human has limited abilities, and history shows that who had more than enough knowledge they lost their mind. Certain things, you can not solve using just your given senses. You have to believe in them. That is called Faith.

[keyplus90]

Few people call it Blind Faith, which may sound nonsensical to few, But Faith has to be blind, How would you prove to your loved one's if they ask you that during any trouble you would protect them or atleast would try even if you have to jump off a cliff for that. I think they will have to trust you that if time comes you would do it.

If they ask you to prove it, would you jump off the cliff to prove. Two scenarios,

1 - If you jumped then they lost you although you have proved your point. But then they will never find you again.
2 - If you do not jump, are you a liar. No I do not think so.

So simply they should have a faith in you that you would even die for them.

Any way "jumping of the cliff" I used for example, It could be anything where you are willing to die.

[figure]

A persons' faith is their beliefs. You'd be amazed at the power and control of one with strong faith. "Faith can move mountains" is no joke.

[jackthehat]

I think it is the fact that your religion can have an impact on us that bothers most folks. And you can insert the religion of your choice there.

As a human being born on this planet we assume that we all have fundamental rights, and , yes fundamental responsibilities.

The fact that religion imposes restrictions on these rights in myriad and baffling ways isn't just odd to our way of thinking but unfair. That, by far and away, most of these restrictions and strictures apply to women is an injustice..........

I wouldn't have to prove myself to my loved one, she knows I would die to protect her. However, she also knows that the greatest promise I could make to her is that 'I will live'. As she would reciprocally die for me the greatest gift I can give is to do what she fervently wishes.

Why is the willingness to die so prevalent in Muslim conversation ?

[The Sherman]

brilliant! I have loved reading this so much! All I can see is that the koran is just as loopholed as the bible (which i know slightly more about)and contradicts itself all over the place! Which gives rise to the fact that some people will use it for good and a few will use it for bad. What really really irks me is when people like Keyplus come on and say "thay are not real muslims they have read it wrong" Oh really they have faith that is wrong and your faifth is right?
please explain why?

[keyplus90]

I believe my Faith is right because, I am learning from Quran and Hadith, myself. Instead of someone else telling me what Quran Says, Yes I can not understand Arabic, The Best way to do that is that I should try to learn Arabic, as people can learn any language so why not, However if I can not, or do not want to learn Arabic then of course I will have to rely on someone else's translation. In fact that is where difference of opinion occurs. As It is not difficult to understand that two people may translate same words differently, Perhaps they both be right but slightly different. Then the only thing remaining is to look for translation by someone who has a reputation and who is well known for his or her deep insight. or get knowledge from where someone well known has given commentary (explanation) of certain things. And with media and availability due to the advancement in printing and so on these things are becoming easily available. As I said the best way is to learn Arabic, but still you would need someone with reputable knowledge for explanation of few things.

[keyplus90]

Jacktheheat - Willingness to die is an impression given to emphasize on something, It is not as prevalent in Muslim conversation as it seems, Or perhaps it is because Death is the biggest reality of this world. I can not think of any thing else as real as death, if you can let me know. And if you look at what I said. I said the same thing that certain things you do not have to prove. And that is called Faith of Belief or whatever words you can use for it. So in fact you are saying what I said, Thanks for that.

[Le Chat]

Can I ask you keyplus, just out of interest, what your first language is? On reading your words, although you are fluent in English, you sentence formation is not.